Could anyone preferable from very ordinary parish give me an example of their order of service for Vigil Mass Christmas Eve? Or any other Mass they are providing over Christmas?
Do people have carols before Mass? Is so, what do you sing, and/or how do you approach it?
I am meeting such a lot of opposition to what I am planning that I am thinking that I must be out of line with what is needed or necessary. I don't want a supermarket Christmas......... endless repetition of very common carols, I thought I was finished with the days when I played five common carols before Mass, during Mass, and the next service, and the next service. But if this is what people want who am I to oppose it. I won't bore you with what I have heard this week, but it just goes round in circles until I am worn out with it.
Order of service for Christmas Masses
Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir
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oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
Hello Oops,
What time is your Vigil Mass?
Do you mean an early evening 'children's' Mass that is packed to the rafters by people who want to get the Mass bit of Christmas over?
I got away with not playing for that, at 6.30 Christmas Eve or even going near it till 3 years ago, as I did Midnight and Dawn Masses.
We had always found some musicians to play a few carols, and I viewed the mayhem 3 year ago. Then we had a change of PP, and fewer musicians, so last year I did the music on my own, and was determined that they would sing some parts of the Mass, so we had the Lourdes Gloria, i.e verses all straight as in Mass book, - the Celtic Alleluia, and the John Lillis call and response Holy Holy, for which I very unusually took my guitar to the lectionary: our music corner is not amp-ed.
The carols are all standards, and believe me the children need to hear Away in.., Rocking, Silent night, Once in royal.. as it is unlikely they will learn them at school these days.
This year I will use 'Come and join the celebration' from HON too.
We have 30 mins carols at 11.30, and used to alternate between general and choir items; nothing terribly clever: Coventry Carol, Gaudete, O holy night!, Lullay my liking one year.
But now we have only 4 or so at practices, and they are less ambitious than they were when we were mostly 40 something rather than 60 something. I am fighting to sing Of the Father's love.. at some point.
We do still sing The Kings, with the chorale part as broad classical guitar chords. We almost always begin Midnight Mass with Come to the manger for the procession to the crib.
Let us know what you are planning.
V
What time is your Vigil Mass?
Do you mean an early evening 'children's' Mass that is packed to the rafters by people who want to get the Mass bit of Christmas over?
I got away with not playing for that, at 6.30 Christmas Eve or even going near it till 3 years ago, as I did Midnight and Dawn Masses.
We had always found some musicians to play a few carols, and I viewed the mayhem 3 year ago. Then we had a change of PP, and fewer musicians, so last year I did the music on my own, and was determined that they would sing some parts of the Mass, so we had the Lourdes Gloria, i.e verses all straight as in Mass book, - the Celtic Alleluia, and the John Lillis call and response Holy Holy, for which I very unusually took my guitar to the lectionary: our music corner is not amp-ed.
The carols are all standards, and believe me the children need to hear Away in.., Rocking, Silent night, Once in royal.. as it is unlikely they will learn them at school these days.
This year I will use 'Come and join the celebration' from HON too.
We have 30 mins carols at 11.30, and used to alternate between general and choir items; nothing terribly clever: Coventry Carol, Gaudete, O holy night!, Lullay my liking one year.
But now we have only 4 or so at practices, and they are less ambitious than they were when we were mostly 40 something rather than 60 something. I am fighting to sing Of the Father's love.. at some point.
We do still sing The Kings, with the chorale part as broad classical guitar chords. We almost always begin Midnight Mass with Come to the manger for the procession to the crib.
Let us know what you are planning.
V
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docmattc
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:42 am
- Parish / Diocese: Westminster
- Location: Near Cambridge
Hi Oops,
I'm pretty much in the same boat as VML. The 5pm children's Mass (also packed to the rafters and chaos) will be carols of the 'fluffy baby Jesus' nature, but I insist (even in absentia) that the Gloria, Gospel and Eucharistic Accs are sung. In all probablility these will be Salazaar, Celtic and Gathering.
Our 'midnight' Mass (at 9pm) is preceded by 15 mins carols. These will be:
On Christmas Night
O Little Town of Bethlehem
Ding Dong! Merrily on high
Let Sighing Cease (choir piece)
Once in Royal David’s City
Possibly one too many here, one may go
It used to be 30 mins, but I pointed out that actually no-one was there at 8.30, one year not even the choir!
Mass will start with a soloist singing the plainsong Hodie Christus Natus Est leading straight into O Come all ye faithful
The rest of the music will be:
Coventry Gloria
Farrell Christmas Psalm
Celtic Alleluia
Of the Father's love
Gathering Mass Accs (3fold plainsong Amen)
Foster Lamb of God
Silent Night
Joy to the World
To the liturgy police who will no doubt want to shoot this down for not using the correct antiphons, rhyming poorly, 'inflicting' the Gathering Mass etc, this is where the community is at.
What are you thinking that's so radical oops?
Its a fine balance between, as was said, here, "give them what they want", and doing what we might like to do in an ideal world. If we don't 'tick the right boxes' for the people who come, like Christmas, but once a year, they won't be back next year.
For me, the incarnation isn't about a cute little baby lying on straw who fails to cry at the sound of cows mooing, but I'm aware its exactly that for many.
I'm pretty much in the same boat as VML. The 5pm children's Mass (also packed to the rafters and chaos) will be carols of the 'fluffy baby Jesus' nature, but I insist (even in absentia) that the Gloria, Gospel and Eucharistic Accs are sung. In all probablility these will be Salazaar, Celtic and Gathering.
Our 'midnight' Mass (at 9pm) is preceded by 15 mins carols. These will be:
On Christmas Night
O Little Town of Bethlehem
Ding Dong! Merrily on high
Let Sighing Cease (choir piece)
Once in Royal David’s City
Possibly one too many here, one may go
It used to be 30 mins, but I pointed out that actually no-one was there at 8.30, one year not even the choir!
Mass will start with a soloist singing the plainsong Hodie Christus Natus Est leading straight into O Come all ye faithful
The rest of the music will be:
Coventry Gloria
Farrell Christmas Psalm
Celtic Alleluia
Of the Father's love
Gathering Mass Accs (3fold plainsong Amen)
Foster Lamb of God
Silent Night
Joy to the World
To the liturgy police who will no doubt want to shoot this down for not using the correct antiphons, rhyming poorly, 'inflicting' the Gathering Mass etc, this is where the community is at.
What are you thinking that's so radical oops?
Its a fine balance between, as was said, here, "give them what they want", and doing what we might like to do in an ideal world. If we don't 'tick the right boxes' for the people who come, like Christmas, but once a year, they won't be back next year.
For me, the incarnation isn't about a cute little baby lying on straw who fails to cry at the sound of cows mooing, but I'm aware its exactly that for many.
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oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
thread
I have already resigned myself to endless "Away in a Manger" although I can't help but object to the baby that does not cry stuff.....human babies cry a lot and are often disobedient....I did toy with Bread of Life, (Farrell ) Christmas version but during practice found we were singing "Feed us to one another" so can't sing that with a strait face anymore. I wish I could do "Of the Father's Love" but we really only do sing a few carols.
It is only the pre Vigil Carols that are the problem. I want to do Gaudete in parts and Holy Child by David Palmer ..... it is photocopiable! Three simple parts known by the youngsters.
Holy Child we have come to thee, you the king who has come for me
low we bow as we worship thee, you the king who has come to free..
All around the city as the dawn is breaking,
someone tell the shepherds "Down there the cave"
surely angels must know
Here's the baby Jesus, Mary Joseph too
Peering in the manger where the babe is sleeping
seeing him they kneel and join in the prayer
Surely angels must know
here we have the Saviour bringing peace to all
In the early hours of morning, in a stable bare,
Joseph wakened from his dreaming
Looked across the way to Mary
And he saw their little boy there
in her arms he lay
took him gently held him up and
In a crib of hay he laid him
Then he knelt there just beside her,
they began to pray
Both together close together
hoping that they may be worthy
Can the glory of this story
as the prophets say
Come to be true, is he the one to
Save the world one day?
and under goes a slow bit.....
Holy Child we have seen the star
in the east from our lands afar
Low we bow as our gifts unfold
Gifts of myrrh frankincense and gold.
And /or anything else the younger people want to do!
In any case, although it will be packed for the Vigil, there might not be a lot of people in the church when whatever is sung, or read, actually happens.
But apparently, older people like it how it used to be, when the organist (me) played Once in Royal David's City etc before Mass. But that is fall back plan b anyway ........
I also have been told by others, that if I did not do the music something would be sung anyway because something was sung before I got active.......... quite, exactly the reason why I keep on..... and also asked "Why are we learning this ?" about new stuff...... I have spent more time arguing with the grownups about what we are singing than practising stuff. What is that all about? Why can't people be helpful? And they do it in front of our younger music group members which is setting a bad example. I also got told I should not do the Christmas Day Mass but stay at home and cook for my family. A bit late after 9 years to tell me that.
Vigil 6.30
misc. carols and music sung from back of church
entrance Come come come to the Manger (PP insists)
Kyrie "Mass of Cille Choirill"
GLoria Salazaar or Clapping
Psalm Today a Saviour has been born for us HON
Alleluia
Prep. Away in or other similar (I would prefer On Christmas Night but ..)
Holy Holy (German Mass)
Agnus Gordon Rock
Communion Silent Night plus...
Exit haven't decided yet but probably O Come or Joy to or whatever they like really......
And Santa will be at our Midnight Mass. But they have got the sensible organist to do that service. Probably. I am just guessing.
Christmas Day there will just be me so standard Carols and not a lot of people at this service although I think there were more last year than usual.
And not one person has said Thankyou for all the work I do over this. It would be so nice if people said, oh yes, let's do that, and thanks for being creative and thoughtful and listening to our views too.
It is only the pre Vigil Carols that are the problem. I want to do Gaudete in parts and Holy Child by David Palmer ..... it is photocopiable! Three simple parts known by the youngsters.
Holy Child we have come to thee, you the king who has come for me
low we bow as we worship thee, you the king who has come to free..
All around the city as the dawn is breaking,
someone tell the shepherds "Down there the cave"
surely angels must know
Here's the baby Jesus, Mary Joseph too
Peering in the manger where the babe is sleeping
seeing him they kneel and join in the prayer
Surely angels must know
here we have the Saviour bringing peace to all
In the early hours of morning, in a stable bare,
Joseph wakened from his dreaming
Looked across the way to Mary
And he saw their little boy there
in her arms he lay
took him gently held him up and
In a crib of hay he laid him
Then he knelt there just beside her,
they began to pray
Both together close together
hoping that they may be worthy
Can the glory of this story
as the prophets say
Come to be true, is he the one to
Save the world one day?
and under goes a slow bit.....
Holy Child we have seen the star
in the east from our lands afar
Low we bow as our gifts unfold
Gifts of myrrh frankincense and gold.
And /or anything else the younger people want to do!
In any case, although it will be packed for the Vigil, there might not be a lot of people in the church when whatever is sung, or read, actually happens.
But apparently, older people like it how it used to be, when the organist (me) played Once in Royal David's City etc before Mass. But that is fall back plan b anyway ........
I also have been told by others, that if I did not do the music something would be sung anyway because something was sung before I got active.......... quite, exactly the reason why I keep on..... and also asked "Why are we learning this ?" about new stuff...... I have spent more time arguing with the grownups about what we are singing than practising stuff. What is that all about? Why can't people be helpful? And they do it in front of our younger music group members which is setting a bad example. I also got told I should not do the Christmas Day Mass but stay at home and cook for my family. A bit late after 9 years to tell me that.
Vigil 6.30
misc. carols and music sung from back of church
entrance Come come come to the Manger (PP insists)
Kyrie "Mass of Cille Choirill"
GLoria Salazaar or Clapping
Psalm Today a Saviour has been born for us HON
Alleluia
Prep. Away in or other similar (I would prefer On Christmas Night but ..)
Holy Holy (German Mass)
Agnus Gordon Rock
Communion Silent Night plus...
Exit haven't decided yet but probably O Come or Joy to or whatever they like really......
And Santa will be at our Midnight Mass. But they have got the sensible organist to do that service. Probably. I am just guessing.
Christmas Day there will just be me so standard Carols and not a lot of people at this service although I think there were more last year than usual.
And not one person has said Thankyou for all the work I do over this. It would be so nice if people said, oh yes, let's do that, and thanks for being creative and thoughtful and listening to our views too.
uh oh!
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oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
-
oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
thread
But I think it is sorted by our teenagers. And we will get away with readings from the Iona book.
And today we took delivery of some very sparkly posters done by our primary school to grace the notice board and replace the old dross. Our Communion candidates are suddenly included in the art work in our church. Hooray.
And, our Diocese has in fact, amazingly, got Children's' Liturgy Guidance available on line, with the Vigil Christmas Mass and some creative ideas for little ones... which I have downloaded and left lying around the back of the church. I was pleasantly surprised. Will I go so far as to dress up small children for a nativity and leave them on the altar throughout the Mass. Maybe not, but an interesting thought. They might trip the altar servers up. It would make my Christmas but I think it would be too challenging. There is nothing quite like random thuds and sudden wailing to enliven the dullest of carols.
And today we took delivery of some very sparkly posters done by our primary school to grace the notice board and replace the old dross. Our Communion candidates are suddenly included in the art work in our church. Hooray.
And, our Diocese has in fact, amazingly, got Children's' Liturgy Guidance available on line, with the Vigil Christmas Mass and some creative ideas for little ones... which I have downloaded and left lying around the back of the church. I was pleasantly surprised. Will I go so far as to dress up small children for a nativity and leave them on the altar throughout the Mass. Maybe not, but an interesting thought. They might trip the altar servers up. It would make my Christmas but I think it would be too challenging. There is nothing quite like random thuds and sudden wailing to enliven the dullest of carols.
uh oh!
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nazard
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
- Parish / Diocese: Clifton
- Location: Muddiest Somerset
We have to share a priest, and so have not had a midnight mass for seven years, but this year Father has managed to snare a priest who didn't look busy enough, so this year we are trying to resurrect it. I will be fascinated to see if anyone comes.
We are copying what we used to do. We start at 23:30 with a service of four readings and carols. The readings are two prophesies and two epistles from other year's advent Sunday mass readings. Then mass follows immediately at whatever time we get there. The running order is:
Away in a manger
Reading from Isiah
It came upon a midnight clear
Reading from Thessalonians
Hark the herald
Reading from Isiah
The angel Gabriel from heaven came
Reading from Acts
Entrance procession to Once in Royal David's City
Bless crib to Angel Voices richly blending vv 1 & 3
Blessing and sprinkling holy water to Water of Life (Dean)
Gloria VIII
Psalm from Catholic Supplement, words corrected to lectionary
Celtic Alleluia
Gospel acclamation to a chunk of psalm tone I haven't chosen yet (tut-tut)
Angels we have heard in Heaven
Sanctus from Deutsche Messe
Memorial Acclamation Christ has died from Mass of Creation without repeat
Our Father by Julian Wiener
Agnus Dei from New People's mass
Communion to See amid the winter's snow & Vom Himmel Hoch do komm ich her from the Orgelbuchlein
Recess to "O come all ye faithful"
Play them out to C V Stanford Opus 101 No 1 Allegretto, an Irish jig for organ!
This is, I suspect, as eclectic a mix as you are likely to find anywhere and is an attempt to include all the congregation's favourites, not always the best reason to select things, but kindly meant.
We are copying what we used to do. We start at 23:30 with a service of four readings and carols. The readings are two prophesies and two epistles from other year's advent Sunday mass readings. Then mass follows immediately at whatever time we get there. The running order is:
Away in a manger
Reading from Isiah
It came upon a midnight clear
Reading from Thessalonians
Hark the herald
Reading from Isiah
The angel Gabriel from heaven came
Reading from Acts
Entrance procession to Once in Royal David's City
Bless crib to Angel Voices richly blending vv 1 & 3
Blessing and sprinkling holy water to Water of Life (Dean)
Gloria VIII
Psalm from Catholic Supplement, words corrected to lectionary
Celtic Alleluia
Gospel acclamation to a chunk of psalm tone I haven't chosen yet (tut-tut)
Angels we have heard in Heaven
Sanctus from Deutsche Messe
Memorial Acclamation Christ has died from Mass of Creation without repeat
Our Father by Julian Wiener
Agnus Dei from New People's mass
Communion to See amid the winter's snow & Vom Himmel Hoch do komm ich her from the Orgelbuchlein
Recess to "O come all ye faithful"
Play them out to C V Stanford Opus 101 No 1 Allegretto, an Irish jig for organ!
This is, I suspect, as eclectic a mix as you are likely to find anywhere and is an attempt to include all the congregation's favourites, not always the best reason to select things, but kindly meant.
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oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
thread
Blimey that's a lot of music! You'll make Santa late!
Will it be nice? I wish I could come!
Will it be nice? I wish I could come!
uh oh!
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nazard
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
- Parish / Diocese: Clifton
- Location: Muddiest Somerset
Re: thread
oopsorganist wrote:Blimey that's a lot of music!
As you point out, you have the sensible organist, our parish has to make do with this old nutter. I have got my son to help out, he is better than me with the manuals, but weak in the pedaling.
You're welcome to come if you can make it to darkest (and muddiest) Somerset after your Vigil mass!
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oopsorganist
- Posts: 788
- Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 9:55 pm
- Location: Leeds
thread
Well I have family in King's Norton. If the parish rise and resist new fangled carols like Gaudete then I may need refuge there.....
uh oh!
Am I alone in thinking that Christmas *starts* at the beginning of Midnight Mass? OK, so we are a small parish, and have no vigil mass, but I have no pressure for carol singing *before* midnight mass (at 8pm). I'll start the first carol when the bell rings (a change this year, I think, to "It came upon a Midnight Clear", after having "Of the Father's love begotten" two years on the trot.)
Mind, I'll keep the carols going for the Holy Family (no more 2nd Sunday of Christmas since the change to Epiphany), just because everyone else starts Christmas early doesn't mean I have to finish it early. But I do get odd looks from my colleagues when we go back on Jan 2nd and I ask them "are you having a good Christmas?"
Mind, I'll keep the carols going for the Holy Family (no more 2nd Sunday of Christmas since the change to Epiphany), just because everyone else starts Christmas early doesn't mean I have to finish it early. But I do get odd looks from my colleagues when we go back on Jan 2nd and I ask them "are you having a good Christmas?"
It's not a generation gap, it's a taste gap.
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docmattc
- Posts: 987
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:42 am
- Parish / Diocese: Westminster
- Location: Near Cambridge
dunstan wrote:Am I alone in thinking that Christmas *starts* at the beginning of Midnight Mass?
No, I'm with you 100% in this Dunstan, (although one could probably argue its actually at 1st Vespers), but sadly I'm alone in thinking this in the parish. We have tried various Advent themed preludes to midnight Mass, and even Vespers, but the masses want carols.
Its increasingly difficult to go against the secular tide that thinks Christmas begins in September and ends on Boxing Day.
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lesley wright
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:01 pm
- Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
In my parish we have to suffer two versions of 'Midnight Mass', one at 6.30 pm and another at 9.00 - and the 9.00 is catered for by the Sunday Evening happy-clappy music group who actually do perform carols to guitars (I've heard tales, but wouldn't go if it was the only Mass taking place in the entire diocese!).
We precede each 'Mightnight Mass' by half an hour of carols interspersed with the OT readings from the four Sundays of Advent - we always start with 'Hark the herald Angels' and try to avoid including any verses which suggest that the baby has already been born, though it's difficult. People start to arrive from 5.30 pm to be sure of a seat, and the carol service always starts at 6.00.
People continue to arrive right up to 6.30 (and beyond, of course) and sometimes the church gets so full that punters come and crowd into the choir seats. At least i've never actually had anyone other than my own sons join me on the organ bench!
We used to do 'Let all mortal flesh' during Communion, but our current PP refused to allow us to do it after his first year, and we are stuck with the really naff carols that everyone knows, including 'Come to the manger' for the Blessing of the Crib (which gets blessed again at 9.00 of course). Then we have to go through a similar Mass on Christmas Day, but this PP chooses to do the Dawn Mass rather than the Day one. I think he has difficulty reading John 1 as though he understands it!
As for anyone in the congregation actually saying 'thank you' for all the time and effort we put into it (and the effort I put into playing appropriate music from 5.30 too) well, we can always hope.
I guess being a 'music minister' is its own reward.
We precede each 'Mightnight Mass' by half an hour of carols interspersed with the OT readings from the four Sundays of Advent - we always start with 'Hark the herald Angels' and try to avoid including any verses which suggest that the baby has already been born, though it's difficult. People start to arrive from 5.30 pm to be sure of a seat, and the carol service always starts at 6.00.
People continue to arrive right up to 6.30 (and beyond, of course) and sometimes the church gets so full that punters come and crowd into the choir seats. At least i've never actually had anyone other than my own sons join me on the organ bench!
We used to do 'Let all mortal flesh' during Communion, but our current PP refused to allow us to do it after his first year, and we are stuck with the really naff carols that everyone knows, including 'Come to the manger' for the Blessing of the Crib (which gets blessed again at 9.00 of course). Then we have to go through a similar Mass on Christmas Day, but this PP chooses to do the Dawn Mass rather than the Day one. I think he has difficulty reading John 1 as though he understands it!
As for anyone in the congregation actually saying 'thank you' for all the time and effort we put into it (and the effort I put into playing appropriate music from 5.30 too) well, we can always hope.
I guess being a 'music minister' is its own reward.