Baptism of the Lord

[Scholastica]

Mass for the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord will be broadcast by Radio 4 on Sunday 11th January at 8.10am in the Sunday Worship slot. It will be led by Fr. Timothy Menezes - member of the SSG Executive Committee and parish priest at St Thomas More Church, Coventry. Kris Pears (SSG Treasurer) is a parishioner there, so a double helping of SSG expertise ....

[musicus]

Thanks, Scholastica (and it's good to see you back on the forum). I shall listen with especial interest, having myself once led the music for a Radio 4 Sunday Worship broadcast. Our PP was up until 4am, worrying about his homily! I'm sure Fr Tim won't have any such worries. Good luck to all involved.

[mcb]

Here are the details from the Radio 4 web site:

St Thomas More, Coventry
Sunday 11 January 2009
Mass for the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord from St Thomas More, Coventry.
Celebrant: Father Timothy Menezes. Musical directors: Jo Boyce and Mike Stanley.
Find out more about Jo Boyce and Mike Stanley on their website cjmmusic.co.uk

I wonder how much input into the music Fr Tim (and the SSG ) might have?

[Southern Comfort]

Here are the details from the Radio 4 web site:

Musical directors: Jo Boyce and Mike Stanley.
Find out more about Jo Boyce and Mike Stanley on their website cjmmusic.co.uk

I wonder how much input into the music Fr Tim (and the SSG ) might have?

Not a lot if Jo and Mike are involved, I fear. Most broadcasts they are involved with are nothing more than showcases for CJM, IMHO, (Bang goes one of my New Year resolutions!) and they seem to have got the "Catholic presence" on Songs of Praise pretty much sewn up.

Does the parish not have any musicians of its own?

[VML]

This is very odd. Either the parish has music resources suitable for a live broadcast of Sunday Mass or they do not.
Or is it being used to show off the diocesan music committee?
Going the way of Songs of Praise, far more entertainment than reality.

[festivaltrumpet]

The parish newsletter is available online:

Jo Boyce and Mike Stanley have been asked to provide music for a live broadcast Mass on Sunday 11th January 2009 (the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord) and they have requested that St Thomas More Church host the broadcast.

One may infer from this that the rite is merely supporting the music, but let us refrain from doing so until we have heard the broadcast.

[Nick Baty]

Going the way of Songs of Praise, far more entertainment than reality.

What sort of reality would you want? You could simply wheel a few cameras into a parish church on a Sunday evening and see what happens (as was once the case) or you can raise the production values and put some money in to it. Which is more likely to get you 3-5 million viewers a week?

[HelenR]

Oh how cynical and negative can you all get. Reading some people's comments I fear that I should apologise for being an SSG member and a huge CJM fan.

All I can say in my defence is that some people may not like the style of music played by Boyce and Stanley but anyone who has attended the Lourdes services planned by them in conjunction with, among others, Fr Timothy, would know that the music is always there to support the rite and deepen our active participation and understanding of our faith.

I also would hazard a guess that it would be very difficult to stop Fr Timothy from having a say in the planning of the liturgy and I for one am really looking forward to the sermon as he never fails to deliver words through which it is impossible to read the newsletter or plan my working week.

For the record, St Thomas More does indeed have great music resources in the parish. In particular a music group who week in week out support a liturgy with a wide variety of hymn choices and a huge growing mass attendance every week. The mass has a two large children's liturgy liturgy groups every week, over ten altar servers most weeks and regular youth readers. In fact is quite a role model for me at least. The reason for mentioning this is the group have been supported and encouraged over the years by Mike and Jo and keep moving from strength to strength.

If you know you are not going to like something just because its CJM then perhaps it is better if you dont tune in - I for one will be hoping for inspiration, strength for my prayer life and really expect that this will be one occasion when
"the word that goes from my mouth does not return to me empty without carrying out my will and succeeding in what it was sent to do.’

[VML]

I meant to say 'more entertainment than worship,' and that is true. I am getting cynical. By all means invest effort, thought and skill into religious broadcasting, but at least don't fool the general non church going viewer that this is what church is like. There's a middle way somewhere, and it's not roaming over a hillside lip-synching.. or having all the local choral societies for evening service.

I am not trying to be negative about the coming Mass tomorrow, the Church needs good communicators. I'll be listening.

[Nick Baty]

I meant to say 'more entertainment than worship,' and that is true.

But when did Songs of Praise ever pretend to be worship?
Should stress that I worked for Songs of Praise for four years and remain very loyal – even when I don't like a particular edition. The fact is, there is no such thing as a typical Songs of Praise so it's a tad difficult to lay down parameters.

[Southern Comfort]

the music is always there to support the rite and deepen our active participation and understanding of our faith.

...and incidentally fill CJM's coffers. <cynicism off>

But as others have said, let's reserve final judgment until we hear what actually happens tomorrow.

[Nick Baty]

and incidentally fill CJM's coffers

We had an electrician in last week – he filled his coffers out of parish funds.
And there was the coach driver who took the kids to Blackpool for the day.
And I have heard that Hayes and Finch now charge for candles.
Terrible.

[musicus]

Or is it being used to show off the diocesan music committee?

This is not a diocesan music committee event.

[Nick Baty]

Listening to it later on iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 1_01_2009/

Had to switch off during destruction of Soul of My Saviour – I mean, you can't change the harmonic structure, you just can't (yes, I know Stephen Dean did in Praise the Lord but....) and the 70s ballad piano in the background.... Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no....

Off to church now for "Sing to the world" by Sands and Lee.

[mcb]

Had to switch off during destruction of Soul of My Saviour

I liked it! You obviously didn't catch St Patrick's Gospel Choir on the Daily Service in November, which included a much more outré arrangement of Soul of my Saviour (and an arrangement of Praise to the Lord, the Almighty that would have made you apoplectic. )

I thought this morning's broadcast was a good one - a good mix of music, performed well with simple resources. I don't think the dichotomy is between 'worship' and 'entertainment' - it just has to be recognised that production values, so to speak, need to be higher for broadcast worship. Otherwise you won't reach anyone new with the broadcast, and then what would the point be?

Didn't like the Agnus Dei this morning (I'm just not happy with the rhyme - Agnus Dei, you take away! - and there was far too much back and forth between the cantor and the assembly), but the rest sounded like a good advertisement for the progressive end of liturgical music, and perhaps a role model for a struggling parish? Tim Menezes was excellent too.