The trouble with Communion Processionals

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John Ainslie
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by John Ainslie »

Southern Comfort wrote:What you have to do is explain to people that it's supposed to be a procession, but that if they don't sing it's only a queue. Singing is what makes it a procession.

In an ideal world, you are right, SC. But it's a bit harsh on those of us who have tried for years to get Communion processions to sing, without success. Next Sunday (Palm Sunday) we will find out all too readily how unwilling many if not most folk are to sing in procession.
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Nick Baty
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Nick Baty »

TT, I'm sure you will have no problem next week quite simply because it's unusual – it's not what we do every week and somehow folk seem to quite like something which is occasionally different.
Last edited by Nick Baty on Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
alan29
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by alan29 »

Tsume Tsuyu wrote:
Southern Comfort wrote:[....I do not think it appropriate for the choir to troop up in procession after everyone else has received and is trying to be quiet, as that will be a major distraction. The only case where the choir can join on to the end of the Communion procession will be if they (and everyone else) are singing something (for example, Eat this bread) that they can sing from memory in the procession.

I should say that what they do at Salford - with the choir processing up to communion at the end - works because the organ keeps playing. I agree that the choir processing at the end when there is silence would distract me from prayer/reflection.


And for choir members who don't want to/are unable to go to communion ...........? Does it spotlight them?
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mcb
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by mcb »

Southern Comfort wrote:I do not think it appropriate for the choir to troop up in procession after everyone else has received and is trying to be quiet, as that will be a major distraction. The only case where the choir can join on to the end of the Communion procession will be if they (and everyone else) are singing something (for example, Eat this bread) that they can sing from memory in the procession.

Bizarre use of the word troop. Is it just the choir who troop, or can anyone? All we do is join the end of the procession with the rest of the people. If the choir went first rather than last (let's call it barge their way to the front, if you prefer), would the assembly be entitled to stare grumpily at the last twenty members of the assembly to join the procession instead? Everyone else has received and is trying to be quiet, after all.

Southern Comfort wrote:Telling them that this [a period of silence] will happen while the musicians are receiving

No. This precisely marks the choir's communion out as separate from that of the 'people'. We are part of the assembly, and the only ritual action that makes sense of this is to join with the rest of the assembly in procession.

TT beat me to it - to my mind there really is no compelling reason to make an obsession out of making one song cover the entire procession. To be sure, there are songs that are long enough, there are songs which are indefinitely extendable with psalm verses and there are ways involving improvisation and repetition of prolonging a song for the sake of it. But some songs are actually better in their original form, and not even slightly improved either as aids to (or expressions of) prayer, or as musical works, by spinning them out. Making a priority out of the length of the song to my mind means at least sometimes putting the cart before the horse.

So what can we do instead? Sing more than one song, for instance! We do that regularly on big occasions, when thirty repetitions of the same antiphon would probably begin to grate. :-) Or (as TT pointed out) on a normal Sunday when the song comes to an end, we draw on the talents of our excellent organist, who knows the kind of music that is conducive to a prayerful procession.

keitha wrote:does the organist at Salford not receive Holy Communion as part of the assembly?

Well, without personalising it, it depends on the organist, and it's up to them. The routine accommodates it - the music comes to end end just before the last communicant has received, and it's a short step from the console to the end of the procession.
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presbyter
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by presbyter »

mcb wrote:Bizarre use of the word troop.


troop |troōp|

verb [ intrans. ]
(of a group of people) come or go together or in large numbers : the girls trooped in for dinner.
• (of a lone person) walk at a slow or steady pace : Caroline trooped wearily home from work.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from French troupe, back-formation from troupeau, diminutive of medieval Latin troppus ‘flock,’ probably of Germanic origin.

Yet

process |prəˈses|
verb [ intrans. ]
walk or march in procession : they processed down the aisle.
ORIGIN early 19th cent.: back-formation from procession ........

....... has perhaps more military overtones. In the Chaplaincy to HM Forces, the assembly marches to receive Communion? :?
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Nick Baty
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Nick Baty »

Nick Baty wrote:I have to hold up my hands and admit it: I cannot get Communion songs to work.
I should withdraw this initial statement.
This evening, Berthier's Eat this bread was a storming success – if one can so describe a communion processional!
Southern Comfort
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Southern Comfort »

mcb wrote:No. This precisely marks the choir's communion out as separate from that of the 'people'. We are part of the assembly, and the only ritual action that makes sense of this is to join with the rest of the assembly in procession.


Have to disagree with you there. Yes, you are part of the assembly and not separate from the people, but your role in the ritual action is ministering to the community, as servants of the community. And one of the acts of service you can perform is receiving Communion quietly and unobtrusively at the end of Communion without disturbing others who wish to be still and make their thanksgiving. It's a similar case to the ministers of Communion not "doing the washing-up" in full view of the congregation.

Everything depends on the layout of the building, and in yours it is comparatively easy for the choir to join the end of the Communion procession without creating undue fuss. In many others this is not the case, and the best solution is for one or more ministers of Communion to go to the choir, wherever they happen to be — off to one side and partially out of sight of most of the people, at the back in a loft, etc.
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Nick Baty
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Nick Baty »

And, while not a Communion Processional, Paul Inwood's Processional Song of the Cross went down splendidly today – the people really sang up – we use part of it for the assembly's veneration of the Cross. And the choir going first or second wasn't an issue as they simply slipped into the procession with everyone else.
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gwyn
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by gwyn »

Paul Inwood's Processional Song of the Cross

I can't imagine Good Friday without it. Yes it's sung with ghusto here in sunny Abergavenny too.
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by HallamPhil »

For our Procession to venerate the Cross we used Processional to the Cross (Inwood), Reproaches (Jakob), God so loved the world (Stainer), Crux fidelis (Picardy) and Trisagion (Walker). For the Communion Processional (uniquely for this celebration each year) we had silence.
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mcb
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by mcb »

There is a green hill, Victoria Reproaches with Latin chant, Jesus, remember me. The last one is the one I can't imagine Good Friday without.
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Nick Baty
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Nick Baty »

We hadn't planned Jesus, Remember Me but, at the last minute, I realised I'd mistimed the whole thing. So, jumped onto the organ (sent the organist venerating) and just played it – everyone sang. Very moving.
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keitha
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by keitha »

We also had 'Jesus, Remember me' as the Communion Processional - and it worked as a processional! We sent the choir off to receive first, singing as they went. We then had a piece from the parish folk-type group, then, after a bit of meditative silence, 'Soul of my Saviour'. NO prizes for guessing which had the full almost 500-strong congregation singing. We also had a parallel passion liturgy for young children in the parish meeting room - with the children (around 40 of them) joining us for the veneration of the Cross - which meant (i) lots of music during the veneration and (ii) the liturgy ran from 3pm to 4.55pm - but no-one seemed to mind!

There must be something about Taize for Communion Processionals - We'll see how 'Surrexit Dominus' goes tomorrow night!
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JW
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by JW »

keitha wrote:We also had 'Jesus, Remember me' as the Communion Processional - and it worked as a processional! We sent the choir off to receive first, singing as they went. We then had a piece from the parish folk-type group, then, after a bit of meditative silence, 'Soul of my Saviour'. NO prizes for guessing which had the full almost 500-strong congregation singing.


The most participation for us yesterday was "The Old Rugged Cross" (Veneration, post Reproaches) , which easily beat "Soul of my Saviour" (Communion) into 2nd place: must be something to do with the 6/8 time signature coupled with a higher-pitched refrain containing the word 'Old'.

BTW We venerated in two's, one kissing the head, t'other the feet - it halved the time - but I suspect I'm going to be ruled off-topic :wink: .
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Nick Baty
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Re: The trouble with Communion Processionals

Post by Nick Baty »

JW wrote:We venerated in two's, one kissing the head, t'other the feet - it halved the time - but I suspect I'm going to be ruled off-topic :wink: .

Staying off topic, do you have a rather small cross? I've been mulling on how the top and bottom of the cross could be venerated at the same time! :? We all went for the centre – just the right for me, although others had to stoop!
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