Liturgical Tourism

[High Peak]

Apologies. Typing out these posts on a smartphone invites errors. It was, of course, during the Communion Procession that the Communion Antiphon and Psalm were sung.

Moderator:- feel free to amend!!

[VML]

I don't care in what country or with what accent it is sung, THE MISSAL GLORIA DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!

Totally agree!

[alan29]

Thanks for the clarification HP.
We don't know we're born, here.

[alan29]

I don't care in what country or with what accent it is sung, THE MISSAL GLORIA DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!

Totally agree!

I see it symbolic of the whole sorry mess that is the new translation.

[IncenseTom]

Sorry, I know I'm in the minority (and off-topic) but I have to give a shout out in favour of the Missal Gloria.

It works in our parish.

[gwyn]

I love the new translation (or the old translation if you're a 1970s convert from the Church in Wales). It has its flaws of course, any translation will.

And also with you - Urgh!

[liturgyprof]

Missal gloria also worked very well in St Petersburg this Sunday.
Quite impressive choir - unaccompanied, perhaps because of Orthodox tradition, apart from single tambourine used (lightly) to indicate pace and rhythm.

[High Peak]

For the last week of our sojourn we have been at the south of the peninsula in the second city of Malaysia, Johor Bahru, where we attended the Vigil Mass at the Cathedral, a building that may kindly be described as utilitarian. Built in 1982 it is a building devoid of imagination or aesthetics, but I was willing to forgive this for one reason: aircon!!!

Sun and moon, O praise the Lord,
Aircon units, O praise the Lord,
To him be highest glory and praise for ever!!!!

I cannot begin to describe my relief and joy.

Two other notable things occurred: pre-Vatican II hymns and Communion under both kinds - but in each case (apologies Dr Leonard "Bones" McCoy), not as we know it. The cathedral seats 800 and, although we weren't crammed into our seats, the pews were all filled.

Mass was preceded by a novena and then, ten minutes before Mass started, about 120 children were marched in. From what I've understood on the Cathedral website, catechesis goes on for about an hour and a half before Mass!! Would we dare do that in UK? The Catechists were wearing "uniform" polo shirts; on the back - in large, bold letters - was printed RCIA but underneath these letters was printed "Roman Catholic Intelligence Agency"!!! I'm not sure whether this was an example of Asian wit or whether that is what it means round these parts.

Mass was celebrated by the Bishop, complete with shaped bamboo crozier. The hymn sandwich was as follows:-

ENTRANCE: "Holy God, we praise thy name" (but with unexpected trills at several points to liven it up).
OFFERTORY: "In bread we being you, Lord".
COMMUNION PROCESSION: "Bread, blessed and broken/Jesus, you're the one..".
POST-COMMUNION: "Alleluia! Sing to Jesus".
RECESSIONAL: "Immaculate Mary"

All parts of the Mass were sung including, on this occasion, the Creed. All were Missal tones except for the Gospel Acclamation which was the Celtic, with verse spoken. The Psalm was sung by a young, teenage cantor.

Singing and responses throughout were strong, aided in part by the large numbers of children, many of whom formed a choir.

There appeared to be three keyboards available of which two were used: A pretty good, convincing-sounding electric piano and an electric organ that was unconvincing and insufficient for the size of building.

One piece of scandal for the purists among you: for the Offertory prayers the Bishop (yes, the Bishop!!) sang the verses of "Blest are you Lord, God of all creation" and the congregation sang the chorus. Now, I've seen this done before and have used it myself in school Masses, but not since the New Translation with the associated restrictions.

For Communion the priest/minister dipped the host into the chalice and presented it to us saying, "The body and blood of Christ". I've never seen that before.

A few final things to note: I've never seen a Missal, Missal pamphlet or hymnal out here - everything is projected onto screens or on TV screens.

Contrary to what I previously reported, Mass is not just available in English and Tamil; at the Cathedral there is one Mass in Mandarin and one in Tagalog (Filipino). At the (one) other church in JB there are Vigil Masses Mandarin and Bahasa Malaysia (the Malaysian language) and a Sunday Mass in Myanmar. But most Masses are in English.

The protocol out here for the Sign of Peace is to turn to those around you and make the Hindu/Indian "Namaste" gesture.

That's the last of my reports from these parts. Do feel free to ask any questions about anything I've touched on our you would like clarifying.

[oopsorganist]

Sounds like some nice trips have been had!

Still in sunny Yorkshire but still travelling around!

Three hymns - Praise my soul the King of Heaven, All that I am, Immortal Invisible. Celtic Alleluia.
Plus a blast of Blessed are you Lord, God of all creation - never heard that used there before!

This is a more comfortably- off parish and they sing with confidence, unaccompanied this week, but still happy to sing out. Such a shame the Gloria and Sanctus are not sung in our region. All that I am seems to be the Regional Anthem. Such a lovely hymn. I once heard at Summer School, a jazzed up version played by Daniel Bath. I quite liked that.

[IncenseTom]

Still in sunny Yorkshire but still travelling around!

Such a shame the Gloria and Sanctus are not sung in our region.

Oops, do pop over to St. Anne's, Keighley for our 11am Mass one week if you can. We always sing the Gloria and Sanctus!

[Southern Comfort]

My annual experience of the Sunday International Mass at Lourdes left me frustrated and depressed, and occasionally even angry, as usual.

What sensitive parish music minister would decide to start a Mass with a Lauda Sion setting whose congregational refrain consists mostly of high D flats?
Db Db Db Db Db C Db Bb / Bb Bb Bb Bb Bb Ab Bb C / Db Db Db Db C Db Db
— an absurdly high tessitura for people who have not yet sung anything at the beginning of the service, virtually no melody (all the interest is in the harmonies underneath), and all in crotchets except for the dotted crotchet-quaver on the antepenultimate C-Db leading to the final minim Db
In fact it feels like a succession of Ds because the organ is slightly sharp.
Of course, predictably, no one sings except the scratch international choir, who all belt it out in unison, busting their voices, and are then useless for the rest of the Mass.

What parish music minister would allow French cantors to sing verses in English, German, Dutch and other languages with such a pronounced accent that it is often impossible to tell what the words are, when the international choir includes people who would be perfectly capable of cantoring in their native tongue if only the French cantors were not so intent on showing off their voices? And what parish music minister would have the two French cantors intoning things in 2-part harmony with the lower voice singing more strongly than the upper one so that the unmusical have difficulty in determining what the tune actually is that they are supposed to imitate?

And what parish music minister would regularly programme pieces of light 18th-century classical instrumental music (think sub-Mozart) as fillers during the procession of gifts and Communion instead of sung liturgical music? That's just laziness, as well as betraying a concept of what is and what isn't "proper music".

All this, and much more, happens regularly at Lourdes because those in charge of the music are not accountable to anyone. Thus psalm responses which are not assembly-friendly, Alleluias which are quite frankly tuneless and boring (exception: Fintan O'Carroll's Celtic Alleluia, which, however is done slowly in an ironed-out version with all the semiquaver "hockets" removed — this was not sung on this occasion: instead we had an Alleluia whose melody consisted of just three notes), settings of the acclamations during the EP which massively paraphrase the liturgical text, an organist who thinks it is his duty to try to bully the Cardinal principal celebrant into singing (he didn't), and a huge assembly which is mainly mute because no one is animating them / the music is beyond them / the words on the large screens are wrong! (Exception: the refrain to the "Lourdes" Gloria, which appeared to be sung by some but by no means all the assembly.)

It always amazes me that this place of pilgrimage, which influences so many throughout Europe, can give such a bad example of how to do liturgical music properly.

It seems to me that what Lourdes ought to be doing is inviting the finest European and American diocesan choirs to take turns leading celebrations which would be object lessons in how to integrate the roles of choir, cantor and assembly while engaging the assembly with music of real quality. I know that some diocesan pilgrimage choirs are occasionally allowed to sing a token piece at the "offertory", but what is needed is good international liturgical-musical leadership of the entire Mass, every week.

[keitha]

Musings on France

I have just returned from the Loire region. Last year I was in the Charente, and in Burgundy the year before that. Prior to that, I hadn't been in France for 18 years. In my earlier visits I found liturgy and music in France to be uniformly dire. Now there seem to be certain trends that have improved matters (although they are still variable). Almost uniformly the Communion 'scrum' has been replaced by a reasonably well-ordered and devout procession of a kind. Mostly the Communion Chant (and it has usually been a chant with cantor and refrain) has begun when the Celebrant receives Holy Communion and continues to the end. Communicants process starting from the back while most people stay in their seats (and usually join in with the chant) until the end of the procession draws level with them, then we have a period of silence or a quiet organ improvisation in major churches. Cantors seem to have mushroomed up everywhere. So far, they have all been pretty competent, but in local parishes they are almost consistently officious and try to run the show - on one occasion interrupting the priest at times and almost bullying him and the congregation, when they just become a distraction and an irritant.

What is actually done? Well we seem to get the 'ordinary', responsorial psalm and alleluia (some good, some dull, and with the Celtic Alleluia popping up all over the place) sung pretty much everywhere, usually led by a cantor with the congregation joining in well. There tends to be an Entrance song and a Communion Chant, both usually 'responsorial', led by a cantor. Occasionally we have a recessional hymn, but in the last 3 summers I have never experienced an Offertory song - there has always been instrumental music - usually, but not always from the organ. Highly competent organists and cantors with good, singable music and high quality organ improvisations at the Basilica in Beaune, Autun Cathedral (original and untouched Cavaille Coll organ which the Cathedral organist was happy to hand blow while I played!), the Abbaye Sainte Marie at Maumont near Angouleme (a wonderful community of 55 benedictine nuns who make a living through online digital archiving as well as vestment making and bookbinding) and, last weekend, Chartres Cathedral. The lowest spot was in the lovely and well-ordered parish church in Doue la Fointaine in Anjou. There we had an officious cantor, accompaniment from a pre-recorded synthesiser operated by a youth at a mixing desk, with the words on three large screens (controlled by another lad with a laptop), one of which was positioned in the centre of the sanctuary in front of, and completely obscuring, the tabernacle, high altar and crucifix, while the celebrant stood underneath it. The music was wholly paraphrase (the Gloria, Credo and the Agnus Dei had virtually no resemblance to the Missal text, and the penitential act had none whatsoever), and the texts were out of focus anyway! What was really irritating was that the church has a lovely organ that I had played during the preceding week and a few teenagers who are learning to play it and play pretty well (at least grade 6/7 standard). There were none of SC's issues about pitch anywhere that I visited.

This year, France has implemented the new translation of the Missal. As one would expect, it made little difference to the congregational responses (they have always been pretty literal translations from the Latin) and no-one seemed to have to many issues with it. However, in the Collegiate Church in Montreuil de Bressay in the Loire two weeks ago (in the grounds of the local chateau, so very picturesque), the new translation was ignored completely (including the orations).

BTW, if you are thinking of visiting Chartres I recommend delaying until the Cathedral's massive restoration is finished - you can currently see very little of the magnificent stained glass, but what has been completed looks stunning.

[Southern Comfort]

BTW, if you are thinking of visiting Chartres I recommend delaying until the Cathedral's massive restoration is finished - you can currently see very little of the magnificent stained glass, but what has been completed looks stunning.

I too was in Chartres for two days last week. The restoration is scheduled to take at least another two years, amid ferocious controversy. (They are returning the interior to the white and beige colours they think it originally was, so the stunning contrast between dark stone and stained glass has largely gone.) The organ has been covered up for a long time, and the choir organ too. The only organ currently functioning is in the crypt. When I was accompanying an American high school choir tour in the main cathedral in March, there was no accompaniment possible at all. But a cappella singing at Mass in Chartres is good and strong.

The bishop is amazing, and his coat of arms depicts someone washing feet. No motto. Wonderful!

There is now a son et lumière on the front of the cathedral at night, and on 20 other buildings in the town. They are spectacular. If you cannot see it for yourself, a DVD is available from the Office de Tourisme.

In general, the new translation is being ignored, as keitha says, in both France and Switzerland.

[keitha]

SC is right in everything he says, apart from the organ. The choir organ is still out of use, but the big boy is in full action (but a tiny bit muffled by the protective covering) - well-performed Bach and others at a wedding last Saturday, more Bach, superb improvisation and the Franck Piece Heroique at the end of Sunday Mass. One surprise. At the end of the Franck I noticed that a couple of notes in the principal chorus were flat. As I asked my wife whether she noticed this a scruffy-looking guy in overalls went up the stairs to the organ loft and tuning began!

[Southern Comfort]

SC is right in everything he says, apart from the organ. The choir organ is still out of use, but the big boy is in full action (but a tiny bit muffled by the protective covering) - well-performed Bach and others at a wedding last Saturday, more Bach, superb improvisation and the Franck Piece Heroique at the end of Sunday Mass. One surprise. At the end of the Franck I noticed that a couple of notes in the principal chorus were flat. As I asked my wife whether she noticed this a scruffy-looking guy in overalls went up the stairs to the organ loft and tuning began!

How interesting! On Thursday 3 September I was told that the grand organ was not yet back in use. The Mass of Candidacy with the bishop that evening was totally unaccompanied. I suppose they could have got it up and running for Keith's wedding on Saturday the 5th....