Laetare or mothering!!?

[VML]

PP has told me that the children from the school will be doing bits of this Mass and head teacher tells me they will read, including the psalm and accs.

They will also be talking about their mothers. I am trying to plan music. Any suggestions?

[oopsorganist]

Can't the children sing what they would sing at school for Mass? If you could find out first of course so it is not wildly inappropriate. When is mother's day?

[docmattc]

As there is no mention of mother's day in our diocesan ordo its Laetare all the way as far as I'm concerned. No other Masses are permitted, so presumably the children are doing readings of the day. While it may sometimes be feasible to incorporate events in the secular calendar into the liturgy (usually in the Prayer of the Faithful is best), that calendar cannot be allowed to cause the rythym of the liturgical one to stumble. If the school wanted music other than that which you would have picked anyway, presumably they would have contacted you with suggestions well before this point?

I will not consider any requests for music which are made less than a month before the Sunday in question in ordinary time, or in the case of Lent, Advent and Easter, a month before the first Sunday. I plan the music for these seasons as a whole, so next Sunday's music for me was determined about 2 weeks before Lent started.

I'm always uncomfortable with "School" Masses on a Sunday which require a whole different musical repertoire. It suggests that 1) the usual repertoire fails to engage the children who are there each week anyway and 2) the rest of the parish don't need to be considered on such a Sunday. Perhaps this is a bit strong, but every Sunday Mass is for the parish as a whole, not for one or other bit of it at the exclusion of the rest. Anne B-M touches on this in her article "Open our ears and hearts" in the latest M&L

Oops, the florist's and cardmaker's money making excuse that is mother's day is this Sunday.

[oopsorganist]

Oh no!

Quick what can I make?

but yes Doc is right and no Doc is wrong. Right in planning thoroughly but

those children who may not be there every week, bring their mums and dads who don't come very often so for that reason it is important that effort is made to engage them..... how many parishes get to see their high schoolers so this it the time to make it inclusive...... where the reading etc certainly cannot be dabbled with, it is the music that can go a little their way.... and ours led the singing last time really well, even though we did not let them use their blooming tape machine/backing track and it has only taken a million years to get that trust and co operation from our school.... and practical here, the money needs to go in the plate.....we have made enough progress to get them to give us material for display in the entrance hall but that is another story....... and I hate Mothers Day too but if the small are there then .... but your music is probably a lot better than ours so maybe they will be inspired by that, horses for courses....ours are coming for Palm Sunday and will probably sing same things as they did for Advent, but no matter, as long as we see them that will do for me.

[docmattc]

those children who may not be there every week, bring their mums and dads who don't come very often so for that reason it is important that effort is made to engage them..... how many parishes get to see their high schoolers so this is the time to make it inclusive......

That's exactly my point. If the music has to make such a vast departure from the normal to engage what should be a significant chunk of the parish, then that tells you something about the normal. I'm not suggesting we should ignore the fact that the kids are involved, but the 'childrens repertoire' and the 'adult repertoire' (or 'school repertoire' and 'parish repertoire') shouldn't be mutually exclusive, there can even be a significant intersection of the two sets.

For that matter, why should it be that these Sundays are often the only ones in which the young people who are there every week are allowed to read/bring up the gifts etc?

[JW]

I have no problem with Mothering Sunday being referred to in Introduction to Mass and prayers. However, I think choirs and readers must be upset but take it very well when they're pushed out by the kids - the message is almost we wouldn't use you if the kids were here every week. Then there is the added issue of parents who have forgotten what the church is there for. But we have to get them into the church somehow, it is more relevant to them if they are reading and singing the what they've practiced. I look upon it as missionary work.

[Benevenio]

PP has told me that the children from the school will be doing bits of this Mass and head teacher tells me they will read, including the psalm and accs.

At least you've been told. I only know that the school will be there this weekend because I happened to read the readers' list...

The message is almost: we wouldn't use you, if the kids were here every week.

The kids aren't there every week, then?

For that matter, why should it be that these Sundays are often the only ones in which the young people who are there every week are allowed to read/bring up the gifts etc?

In my experience, usually it is those youngsters who are there every week, and are already involved in various ministries, who are excluded by the school (most of whom, staff and pupils alike, do not go to church in this parish, if at all) because they go to the local non-Catholic primary school or have moved up to secondary school.

VML, does the school also want to "do the bits of the Mass" on Fathers' Day (Sunday 15 June, this year)?

[VML]

I didn't call it mothers' day! Mothering Sunday it may be and I know all it is supposed to mean as in returning to your mother church or having time off from being in service etc. (I also know that with 8 offspring I will be spoiled on Sunday but can't put my foot in it before hand and say don't bother, in case they have forgotten!- )
As for the music: we have Christ is our King, let the whole world rejoice! ( Not one I like, but ..)
The three part Russian (?) Kyrie someone posted here a year or so ago. We've used it through Lent.
Spoken Psalm...and Gospel acc. (Grrr)
I did suggest they might like to consider announcing that psalms are songs that Jesus knew, before we sing Crimond, but it didn't take off.
Gather us in
Celtic Holy
Sung Euch Acc.
Straight words sung Lamb of God
Crimond for Comm Procession
Amazing grace
Moses, I know...... (we're the people of God.)

Fathers' Day?? Last one we were in a parish where the PP is Father Day and he made sure all the readers were dads (and he calls each communicant by name as far as possible .)

[JW]

Benevenio,

No the kids aren't there every week. During my teaching days I once had occasion to attend all the masses in my parish one Sunday. Out of a primary roll of about 240 (of which 50% are Catholic) about 12 attended mass in the parish that day. The count of secondary age pupils was even lower.

This is a serious problem for the church. Innit?

[Dot]

The reality of children from Catholic schools lacking in the tradition of attending Mass in their parish is a big problem. There is a sense of community within school that becomes fragmented as soon as you try to transfer things from school to parish. I am faced with that difficulty tonight when the school will be responsible for the ministry usually provided by regular parishioners. Children are willing to volunteer within school but reluctant to commit themselves to going to Mass at church. It is a very tenuous ministry but, as long as the school head is supportive, we persevere. It is quite scary for young children to stand up and sing in a place where they do not always hear any response from the assembly, and I am hoping that one former pupil of the school will be there to join them and support them. It would be good to know that people who do sing regularly at Mass would be there to support a very fragile ministry and perhaps breathe more life into a wavering flame. It is also important that, on the occasions that the school and parish do meet, that they are drawing from a common musical pot and a common musical style.

As for the regular music group not knowing about the school's attendance except through the readers' list: the idea of letting the school "do Mother's Day" was entirely the brainchild of the guy who draws up the readers' rota. He communicated it to me, and it seems strange that he did not communicate it to the leader of the choir with which he sings! This was nothing whatever to do with school, and the school will not be alluding to mothers at all at Mass tonight, but singing music appropriate for the 4th Sunday of Lent.

Dot

[VML]

To a great extent, Dot, you have the children probably unconsciously doing the traditional 'mothering,' i.e. coming to Mass at their home church when they don't for the rest of the year! Not that they regularly go anywhere else either..Really much more in keeping with the season than the 200 single daffs that will be handed out here.

Our reader, (also readers' rota organiser,) was not actually told that the children were reading until I told her at choir practice. She knew about the daffs though- she does the flowers too. Too few people doing too many jobs.

[Dot]

Parish Mass with the primary children last night:
an affirming experience for all involved because of the good attendance and the supportive singing of the assembly. The ministry of the person in the pew is just as important as that of the people who lead (but who are supposed to be invisible!) Thanks to all members of Forum who came and supported it.

Dot

[oopsorganist]

That's nice Dot.

But what is going on where our schools are concerned. The faith schools are researched and found to offer a good and better education, because they give children a joined up experience and values which are communally held therefore achieve more betterer than other schools. So they tell us.

And away a bit back, the Catholic schools were the church's missionary work. Some people really do not like it, that we have our own schools. And there must be some that work well with their parishes or larger communities? Yes, no, maybe, just like there must be some parishes where everything hangs together nice and people do not feel like they struggle alone.

Our parish primary does not feel like it is part of the parish. Even OFSTED told them they needed to be a bigger part of the community including the parish. Which is the lever I can push to get them to sometimes appear and lead the music. They do have musical resources but not a choir.........and consider this, children of Irish origin lead our Education Authorities statistics just slightly behind of the tiny percentage of people who will not fill out the ethnicity form! So they are doing well education wise. But not coming to church, and the high schools seem well out of the picture although they must be doing something.

This discussion sits alone but links to that other one which goes, "Why are we all so old in the music roles?" And a congregation waiting to die. It must be a very big issue really.
On Mother's Day I contemplate how seldom my oopsies go to church. Now that is harder still. The Body of Christ is a bit wrinkly around our area.

And in addition, I am pondering this. We have (education again), a wonderful project in our locality, a fragile area, where someone has had a good idea of starting a Gospel Style choir linking up all the schools in the area...... great fun, and all the schools have responded, bringing miscellaneous kinder to sing together in a very jolly and upbeat way....... guess which school did not come, or even reply to the invite/take up the offer of free transport even...... yes, the Catholic primary in the cluster. Probably cramming for SATS. It does make you wonder.

Happy Mother's Day to all.