Psalms for the new Lectionary

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Nick Baty
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by Nick Baty »

dmu3tem wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:46 pmThe question is whether in general such issues are so prolific as to make a translation really awkward for composers to work with.
More to the point, the texts are very difficult for the average parish cantor. The days of the music for one verse fitting the music for the others are gone. As an example, my attempt at Psalm 80 (79) for 1 Advent B and 4 Advent C: Verse 1 has six bars. Verse 2 has 10 bars and Verse 3 has eight bars.
dmu3tem wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:46 pm Unless you do statistical comparisons between different translations I don't think we will get very far.
Not much needed in the way of statistics. The Grail Psalms have an underlying rhythm which make them singable. Abbey Psalms and Canticles has ditched rhythm and poetry in favour of literal translation.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by Hare »

2 Corinthians 3:6 springs to mind.....
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by dmu3tem »

You inadvertently raise an important issue about parish cantors (one verse setting suits all). The tendency, especially with published music, is to write for the lowest common denominator; as by definition one is aiming at as large a market as possible. There is also the fact that rehearsal time with a cantor is short (I usually have 30 mins. maximum); and anyway a new piece has to 'succeed' first time around given people's impatient reactions to 'new music', especially if written by composers they have never heard of. If you write for a specific parish the situation is different, as you are writing for a particular set of skills. When these are limited then you have to write accordingly; and usually I find it harder to produce something 'good' in such situations. On the other hand the danger with making music as easy as possible is that you do not stretch more competent performers and they then vote with their feet. Furthermore many psalm texts have big mood swings which demand different musical approaches. Verses with different lengths then are not necessarily a problem but add to a wider challenge; and one's response may well put greater demands on the cantor unless you are very lucky with creative inspiration and can produce something simple. Sophistication then gives you greater means to respond sensitively to text.

Today, I have just been looking at the psalm text for Palm Sunday (Ps. no. 22). Three of the four verses have 4 lines; the final verse has 5; just the sort of irritation that has been discussed. That extra line I dealt with simply by repeating the voice part for the previous line with a different cadence at the end. I was able to do this because of the chord progression I was using across the whole verse. More to the point though is the shift in mood from unrelieved gloom in verses 1-2 to more positive ideas in verse 4 (verse 3 shows the beginning of this transition). The composer is being asked to do something different, even if this just means changing the dynamics and articulation; and one can exploit the major-minor aspects of each triad built up from the seven basic degrees of the scale you are using. Furthermore that final verse needs to be longer so that this more positive mood is balanced against what has gone before; so the extra line makes perfectly good sense to me. 'You will fear him, LORD, give him praise...' as opposed to 'All who see me deride me...' at the beginning. This itself leaves the problem of the final response, whose text is still gloomy: 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' as it clashes with the mood of verse 4. My reaction has been to add after that a two bar version of my keyboard introduction in a major, as opposed to minor key. (G major vs E minor). I am not sure whether this has really dealt with the problem; but it illustrates how technique can go a long way towards sorting such difficulties out.
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Nick Baty
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by Nick Baty »

Yes, have been through all of this. Repeating phrases, reharmonising etc.

Much worse than Palm Sunday is Good Friday, where an extra phrase suddenly appears at the end of Verse 1:
Previously: Into your hands I commend my spirit.
It is you who will redeem me, Lord.


Now:Into your hands I commend my spirit.
You will redeem me, O LORD, O faithful God.


The there's 2 Lent B, second stanza...
Previously: Your servant, Lord, your servant am I:
you have loosened my bonds.


Now: Your servant, LORD, your servant am I,
the son of your handmaid;
you have loosened my bonds.


Poetic and musical texts have been mangled to remove the poetry and make them less suitable for singing. And then there are all the errors...

If you have a cantor who can learn a psalm in 30 minutes, then you have some great resources to hand.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by dmu3tem »

Yes, I found even the Grail translations of the Good Friday psalm and Lent 2B quite a challenge. This may have been because at the time I was being quite ambitious musically. It is something all composers have to watch out for. The temptation is to say: 'I have a marvellous musical idea, and I cannot bear to see it mangled to fit the text'. We have to ask: 'Is the problem not to do with the text but a flaw in the musical idea?' Nonetheless we should be prepared to answer 'No' and barge ahead. This was exactly what I did with Grail Lent 2B. I was a bit 'naughty' and, for reasons to do with my musical material, I altered the text thus:

'Your servant, your servant, Lord, am I'.

I certainly would not be allowed to do this under the present regime; and I probably would have been refused by Collins if I had asked their permission to publish it. In the end I never had it performed. I just wrote it 'for my desk'.

The issue it raises though is serious. As far as I was concerned I had not altered the meaning of the text. It is a technique used by composers down the ages. Why, then, should people object?

Here are some possible answers:
[1] The 'give and inch and you give a mile' argument. If someone gets away with this others will do much more radical alterations which really will alter the textual meaning.
[2] The assumption that a prayer is like a spell. You have to utter it in exactly the 'right' phraseology for it to 'get through' to God.
[3] You should not tamper with a text that has been 'inspired by God' or maybe even uttered by him. God has spoken/sung through the psalmist.
[4] The sanctity of copyright. A scholar has laboured over the translation and can only get remuneration for the work if it is exactly adhered to. If altered someone might claim copyright on that!

I am sure readers can work out answers to these arguments. Maybe there are others that should be displayed.

Note especially the implications of [1]: namely the tension between the technical expertise of the linguist and that of the composer. How many are proficient in both? Certainly not myself. I cannot read Greek or Hebrew and my command of Latin is poor. I also note that my English is at times idiosyncratic and slipshod. In the end I have to depend on the person responsible for the text.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by alan29 »

Some interesting discussion here revolving around the relationship between text and music. For many years I sang the psalm in Latin to plainsong chants. These don't change when the mood of the text changes. Then, at University I sang them to Anglican chants where the same psalm will often have a different chant when things brighten up or go dismal. I don't have the knowledge to comment on how the ancient Hebrews chanted them originally. Does anyone?
The argument about what takes priority in a song, music or words, is a long-standing one, however It does seem to me that the text is King in the psalms and that the things we compose should not be so elaborate as to draw undue attention to themselves and away from the texts. Our settings are vehicles to enable the cantor/psalmist to get the words across as directly as possible.
My solution to ruined rhthmic patterns and extra lines to write a suitable chant in free time. But even then it is an utter pain.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by Nick Baty »

And there's the annoyance that a setting, which once fitted comfortable across two pages, now takes three or four pages. Grrrrrr!
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by dmu3tem »

Picking up on the suggestion that a flexible chant can get around issues with textual rhythm. I recently looked at several such settings; albeit using different notational systems.

On paper the suggestion seems eminently sensible. Flexible chant systems use less space; they look simpler on paper; and for publication purposes (working against the clock) they are easy to modify.

As soon as I really looked at it though I hesitated.

The trouble with flexibly chanted verse settings is their inherent uncertainty. Different musicians will apply varied rubatos to particular passages. A rehearsal (against the clock) is then dominated by resolving such issues, especially if they have to be agreed on with accompanying instrumentalists (Different of course if you play and sing simultaneously). The result is that less attention attention is paid to other aspects of musical performance - e.g. dynamics, tempi, phrasing, articulation/diction. I also note that many such settings give virtually no such instructions. They leave it to performers to work these out as they go through the verses, relying on the text for guidance (although you can do a lot this way).

A fully written out setting with a fixed pulse evades such problems. It may look more daunting. Certainly it takes up a lot more space and is also more troublesome to edit. However a competent musician can read all such details as they hurdle through the part; so matters like dynamics are dealt with virtually automatically (usually second time around). Furthermore a composer's responses to mood changes in the text are also 'taken in the performers' stride'. Time signature changes also go a long way towards dealing with patterns of rhythmic emphasis; and there are many fewer problems over coordination between singers and other players. This explains my earlier remarks about allocating a maximum of 30 minutes for mastering a new psalm setting from scratch. It really can be done if the composer has thought things through properly and the piece is rehearsed efficiently.

You should not, of course, have complex detail for its own sake. That is the mistake 'modernist' composers often make - almost as if they want their music to be more abstruse and inaccessible. However there is little doubt that, when used properly, details confer certainty; and this reduces time spent debating how a piece should be performed. The instructions should say it all.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by Nick Baty »

Have to admit to not having used a chant-style psalm since the late 1980s so I'm not really in a position to comment.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by dmu3tem »

For a challenging Psalm text see Psalm No. 1 (6th Sunday in Ordinary Time Year C)

It starts like this (citing Psalm 40 (39)):

'Blessed the man who has placed his trust in the LORD.'

....and continues in this calm confident vein till stanza 3:

'Not so, are the wicked, not so!
For they, like winnowed chaff,
shall be driven away by the wind.
For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish'.

The problem lies not in the translation but in the idea! The Grail equivalent is similar.

This demands quite different - and pretty violent - treatment by any composer responding to text. Self-abnegating Solesmes style plainchant won't do here; nor should one be afraid of 'showing off''. You must ask performers to 'go for it'. Then you must revert to something calmer for the final response.
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Re: Psalms for the new Lectionary

Post by dmu3tem »

alan29 wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:46 pm Our settings are vehicles to enable the cantor/psalmist to get the words across as directly as possible.
This is very close to the ' music being the handmaid of the liturgy' idea expressed by Pius X in his Motu Proprio 'Tra Le Sollecitudini' of 1903 and repeated officially ever since. This, of course, was a direct reaction against operatic styles of singing current in many churches at that time, especially in Rome! Personally I hate this style of singing - especially if it has a heavy vibrato and ''swooping' up to and away from notes. However If it promotes religious understanding for others I cannot see why one should object. My dislike is merely an expression of musical taste, which is subjective.

The trouble with the 'handmaid of the liturgy' line though is that it makes music redundant. If text is complete in itself why add music? Yet with psalms we know this was not so. Biblical accounts show that text and music were prepared in conjunction with one another - and dancing is mentioned too! These can be congruent; but often there is an inherent tension between the two. At the very least music emphasises certain aspects of meaning at the expense of others; and it can also add meanings not present in the text alone. This has huge positive potential; but it can also be dangerous, hence repeated campaigns to make music simply a vehicle to convey text. Yet this does not solve the problem; for an anodyne setting drains text of meaning, in the same way as happens when a reader declaims in a flat colourless monotone. Besides, if you do this you cramp musicians, preventing them from using God given talents to the full. Musicians are in effect being told to 'bury their talent in the ground'. The reality should be that they have equal opportunity to use their gifts in the same way as other groups.

The true answer is that musicians master the technicalities of their craft, as this enables them to respond to text in an utterly controlled way. Musically they should then achieve exactly what they set out to do. Yet simultaneously they also need a clear understanding of the liturgical context in which those talents are being used. The extent of musical knowledge though makes it impossible to master that liturgical context in detail; and usually all they need is a basic liturgical understanding. They should not use detailed liturgical analysis to evade the demands of technical musical study.

If we think about it the same points apply to linguistic specialists. They too are simply one part of a liturgical whole. Liturgy is a combination of different elements - text, music, gesture, vestments and other objects etc. Linguists aim to master their craft to the same extent as musicians and other groups manage theirs. Note too that accurate translation and 'poetic' manipulation of language are different but overlapping skills. So, like musicians, they cannot achieve a full result if they concentrate on words alone. If then they are dealing with texts that are going to be combined with music, linguists need some musical understanding. In the same way as musicians are expected to pay attention to the nature of text linguists should listen to what the former have to say. When musicians (rightly or wrongly) think this is not happening you get complaints of the sort that have been seen on this thread. When musicians barge ahead without regard for other liturgical components you get the reaction of Pius X. This was the genius of the Bible de Jerusalem project in the 1950s when it came to psalmody. Linguistic scholars really did consult with musicians - led by Joseph Gelineau - about how things should be done. The result was probably the first psalm translation since ancient Hebrew times that took music properly into account. Inevitably this must have produced textual distortions that a linguist solely concerned with literal accuracy might blanch at; but this brings one back to the point that the original psalm texts and their music were created together.
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