Sign of Peace

[Mithras]

Am I alone in being increasingly perturbed about the manner in which this mini-rite is exercised? Yesterday at Mass, in addition to the standard hand shake (as recommended by Celoebrating the Mass 204) there were waves from one side the church to the other, a couple of hugs, and the altar servers left the sactuary and went down the centre and side aisles greeting all and sundry, continuing to do this while the Lamb of God was being recited. Later in the same secytion of CTM is says that "(a)ll members of the assembly.miisters and people, turn to those immediately around them." No mention there of walking about the church.

What is now becoming the norm?

Mithras

[festivaltrumpet]

You are certainly not alone. This isn't becoming the norm, there is a strong move to curtail the exuberance at this point, and even a possibility of the rite moving to elsewhere in the Mass. There are several threads on this forum about it.

[Mithras]

You are certainly not alone. This isn't becoming the norm, there is a strong move to curtail the exuberance at this point, and even a possibility of the rite moving to elsewhere in the Mass. There are several threads on this forum about it.

Next thing will be people exchanging phone numbers

Another irksome thing is the increasing number of people adopting the priest's gesture (ie arms extended and upturned hands) at the Our Father....


M

[monty]

I agree with you Mithras - this is getting out of control. It turns into a general chitchat but if you try to stay still you are viewed as being anti-social!!!

Also pleased you have mentioned the posturing.

Think I am becoming a grumpy old person.

[NorthernTenor]

Think I am becoming a grumpy old person.

Welcome.

[alan29]

Sorry, but when I am at Mass with Mrs Alan29, shaking hands seems a wildly inappropriate gesture.

[monty]

Quite right. But do you walk all around the church shaking as many hands as you possibly can? Or do you kiss everyone in your bench, the one in front, the one behind, the one the other side of the aisle, etc?

Maybe you do.

[alan29]

Quite right. But do you walk all around the church shaking as many hands as you possibly can? Or do you kiss everyone in your bench, the one in front, the one behind, the one the other side of the aisle, etc?

Maybe you do.

I think she might have VIEWS on that!

[lesley wright]

I'm bemused that you are all making physical contact in these apparently pandemic-threatened times We have been advised by our Bishop that we cannot touch each other - though I have heard the occasional celebrant pointing out that there's no reason why a married couple should not do so at the appropriate moment in the Mass.

[Nick Baty]

Generally with you on this – but I've long been known on here as a grumpy old git.

However...

continuing to do this while the Lamb of God was being recited.

Did someone start the Lamb of God early? I've seen that happen in a few places.

Another irksome thing is the increasing number of people adopting the priest's gesture (ie arms extended and upturned hands) at the Our Father....

Surely not that irksome as it doesn't really impinge on anyone else. Less to do the adopting the priest's gesture – more of an import from prayer meetings etc.

[keitha]

I too am fed up with the 'extended' peace rite that has crept in and the outstretched arms at the Lord's Prayer. Last Saturday I was at mass in Seville Cathedral and the family in front were Korean. They turned round, each joined their hands in prayer, and bowed to those of us in the row behind. Everyone in my row (mainly Spanish) replied in kind and I thought it was simple, dignified, prayerful and beautiful to see. We then had a chat and shook hands after mass.

GIRM 2 provides: "As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner."

In relation to the Lord's Prayer, in the church that I often attend in Spain the hand-spreading was endemic until last year. Now, not only do we have the so-called 'Benedictine Arrangement' on the altar, but the hand spreading has ceased! In addition, the old communion 'scrum' has ceased and it is all much more orderly and reverent.

[mcb]

Another irksome thing is the increasing number of people adopting the priest's gesture (ie arms extended and upturned hands) at the Our Father....

Surely it's first and foremost a gesture of prayer, rather than a sign of priesthood. (Why else would the priest be doing it, after all?) How can it be reasonable to object to people adopting a prayerful gesture?

[John Ainslie]

It is a peculiarity of the Roman rite to have the sign of peace before Communion rather than before the Preparation of the Gifts. This has been explained as a need to show that one is in spiritual communion-fellowship with one's neighbour before one shares it sacramentally with him/her, i.e. a specific requirement for communicants. But now that everyone confesses to each other in the Penitential Rite explicitly ("and to you, my brothers and sisters" in the 'I confess') or implicitly, having it so late in the liturgy does make it seem out on a limb. Pope Benedict in Sacramentum Caritatis notes (para 49):

It should be kept in mind that nothing is lost when the sign of peace is marked by a sobriety which preserves the proper spirit of the celebration, as, for example, when it is restricted to one's immediate neighbours.

'Sobriety' is a noted characteristic of liturgy for him, as it was for his mentor, Romano Guardini. And the Pope added this footnote:

I have asked the competent curial offices to study the possibility of moving the sign of peace to another place, such as before the presentation of the gifts at the altar. To do so would also serve as a significant reminder of the Lord's insistence that we be reconciled with others before offering our gifts to God (cf. Mt 5:23 ff.)

Whether the said 'curial offices' are 'competent' enough to do anything about this is another matter...

On the matter of how one exchanges the Sign of Peace, I am in agreement with Southern Comfort (some time ago in another thread) that something distinctive is required, be it a double handclasp or a namaste. I am particularly taken by the latter since it shows respect, even reverence, for one's brother/sister in Christ with whom one is about to share sacramental koinonia.

[presbyter]

..... or a namaste. I am particularly taken by the latter since it shows respect, even reverence, for one's brother/sister in Christ with whom one is about to share sacramental koinonia.

Interesting idea John (or even the very slight variant of the Thai "wai"). I think it raises problems of inculturation though. It's not a Western tradition.

[monty]

I agree with Presbyter, it just is not our culture. On the very rare occasion I have seen it, it looks very strange almost a bit sarcastic.

A nod of the head would be good enough for me.

Someone asked either earlier in this thread or another thread if the Agnus Dei had been started too early - probably it was started but some people carried on the hunt for those they had not already physically grasped.