Happy Assumptiontide!!

[Lakelark]

It has been a source of joy to read all the accounts of exuberant singing at last Sunday's masses. Just to make the record a little more complete, we sang the plainchant Ave Maria in Latin, and concluded the mass with Salve Regina, also in Latin. The exuberance was tangible. Lovely! The menu also included Hail, Queen of Heaven (which is an expanded version of the Salve Regina, so we sang it twice - three times, if you count the concluding antiphon at Morning Prayer!)

Reflecting on this, it has occurred to me that for many people there might have been a sort of sub-text to Sunday's liturgy: it was an opportunity to declare our catholic identity in a way which is not often made available. And a sub-sub-text: it was an opportunity to be openly emotional in a way which is not often made available. If this isn't a new thread, perhaps a few comments on these thoughts of mine . . . ?

[Nick Baty]

Was thinking the same on Good Friday when we sang Soul of my Saviour at communion – lots of once-a-year visitors, of course (who wouldn't dream of coming to the Mass of the Lord's Supper or the Vigil) but who sang their hearts out. It felt then as though there was something else going on.

Only sadness about last Sunday is that the Assumption knocked out part of John 6 which we only get every three years. Back to John 6 this week but the flow has been interrupted. Sad really. Having said that, this Sunday gives us that line from Ephesians: "...so is a husband the head of his wife". Wonder how many of them are allowed to think that at home!

[johnquinn39]

Reflecting on this, it has occurred to me that for many people there might have been a sort of sub-text to Sunday's liturgy: it was an opportunity to declare our catholic identity in a way which is not often made available. And a sub-sub-text: it was an opportunity to be openly emotional in a way which is not often made available. If this isn't a new thread, perhaps a few comments on these thoughts of mine . . . ?

Yes, perhaps a new thread is coming on.

The most joyful 'Our Lady' Mass I have been to was a few years ago when in my previous parish the Nigerian community held a special celebration.
The Mass was on a Saturday morning with a celebratory meal afterwards.

For around 20 mins before Mass, Marian hymns were sung (extremely loudly!). Then, after a few minutes silence, the Mass commenced - a votive Mass to Our Lady from Lectionary III. The Canticle/Pslam was 'My soul rejoices in God my saviour' (with the OT version of the mag.)
- My composition, but joined in with percussion and enthusiastic singing by people who had not heard this before.

We used Inwood's 'Gathering Mass' and popular English and Nigerian hymns.

The dancing at the gifts was truly breathtaking - surely part of our Catholic identity!

Going on to being openly emotional - do we services other than the Mass for this? (And other votive Masses, of course.)

Finally, is there a danger of 'catholic identity' and nostalgia overshadowing what Our Lord is doing for us, what we were baptised for, and what we actually believe? - For example, in my view, if you really want to raise the roof, put on 'As I kneel before you' at communion.

What do people think?

[Nick Baty]

For example, in my view, if you really want to raise the roof, put on 'As I kneel before you' at communion.

Not quite sure of your point. As I kneel before you is not a traditional Catholic item and totally unsuitable for Communion. In fact, isn't it nigh on heretical? It's certainly crap!

[johnquinn39]

For example, in my view, if you really want to raise the roof, put on 'As I kneel before you' at communion.

Not quite sure of your point. As I kneel before you is not a traditional Catholic item and totally unsuitable for Communion. In fact, isn't it nigh on heretical? It's certainly crap!

This is exactly my point Nick.

[Nick Baty]

This is exactly my point Nick.

What is? I'm confused!

[Mithras]

For the choir: anybody here do Villette's Hymne a la Vierge? A cross between compline in Notre Dame and a jazz club on the left bank. Smoky!

Mithras

[NorthernTenor]

For the choir: anybody here do Villette's Hymne a la Vierge? A cross between compline in Notre Dame and a jazz club on the left bank. Smoky!

Mithras

A good description of a marvellous piece.

[HallamPhil]

Went to Mass while on holiday in Dorset and there was a new priest in this parish who started his homily with a statement that there was no scriptural basis for the pictorial depictions of the Assumption. He then went on to list what was scripturally known about Mary and suggested that the 20th century papal statement on the assumption after 1500 years of Church believing something about Mary was extremely suspicious. He also suggested that these were grounds for doubting papal infallibility and didn't even get started on Immaculate Conception. After witnessing the homilies of his predecessor this was challenging stuff, a welcome surprise and made for a happy Assumptiontide!.

[gwyn]

a welcome surprise and made for a happy Assumptiontide!.

What was welcome about that then?

[Dot]

For the choir: anybody here do Villette's Hymne a la Vierge? A cross between compline in Notre Dame and a jazz club on the left bank. Smoky!

Mithras

Maybe a good description of a marvellous piece, but for liturgy? I think it is more for choir self-indulgence.

There's wonderful polyphony that provides wonderful liturgical material: eg. "If ye love me" - Tallis,"Ave Verum Corpus" - Byrd or Elgar. But I would draw the line at the former piece. I've only sung it at concerts.

Dot

[Southern Comfort]

Went to Mass while on holiday in Dorset and there was a new priest in this parish who started his homily with a statement that there was no scriptural basis for the pictorial depictions of the Assumption. He then went on to list what was scripturally known about Mary and suggested that the 20th century papal statement on the assumption after 1500 years of Church believing something about Mary was extremely suspicious. He also suggested that these were grounds for doubting papal infallibility and didn't even get started on Immaculate Conception. After witnessing the homilies of his predecessor this was challenging stuff, a welcome surprise and made for a happy Assumptiontide!.

Was this Swanage, by any chance?

[docmattc]

Just a gentle reminder that this is a thread about musical choices and liturgical practices for the feast of the Assumption. Let's not go down the route of discussing papal infallibility, doctrine, or the orthodoxy (or otherwise) of clergy.

[gwyn]

Extracts from ‘Munificentissmus Deus’, Apostolic Constitution of Pope Pius XII
11. And, since we were dealing with a matter of such great moment and of such importance, we considered it opportune to ask all our venerable brethren in the episcopate directly and authoritatively that each of them should make known to us his mind in a formal statement. Hence, on May 1, 1946, we gave them our letter "Deiparae Virginis Mariae," a letter in which these words are contained: "Do you, venerable brethren, in your outstanding wisdom and prudence, judge that the bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin can be proposed and defined as a dogma of faith? Do you, with your clergy and people, desire it?"

44. For which reason, after we have poured forth prayers of supplication again and again to God, and have invoked the light of the Spirit of Truth, for the glory of Almighty God who has lavished his special affection upon the Virgin Mary, for the honor of her Son, the immortal King of the Ages and the Victor over sin and death, for the increase of the glory of that same august Mother, and for the joy and exultation of the entire Church; by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma:

that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed
the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.

45. Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare wilfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith.

Now that's refreshing.

"Be joyful. Keep The Faith."

[FrGareth]

VML asked:

Are there any really good modern hymns to/ in honour of the BVM?

Another modern Magnificat - regular metre, very upbeat - is Andrew Stayne's My soul Magnifies the Lord.

A 1983 hymn to Our Lady I requested our choir learn for this Assumption is Jayne Fitzgerald's Beautiful Lady (Maltfriscan music)

- neither of which will be well known outside the Youth 2000 / Charismatic circuit.

Our Saturday evening planning group picked As I Kneel Before You for the communion hymn, which I subtly rescheduled as a post-communion following communion in silence.

docmatt wrote:

As we really don't have anything sung in the parish other than Sunday Mass its hard to know how to get a decent magnificat setting well known.

Perhaps a way of getting the congregation to learn a Magnificat would be to use it as a common psalm for a string of Sundays - maybe in Advent?

FrGareth