Is a Responsorial Canticle still a Responsorial Palm?

[gwyn]

There are a few Sundays and weekdays when the responsorial following the first acripture reading at Mass is taken from a book other than the book of psalms. In this case, is it still referred to as the Responsorial Psalm? My Missal says that it is. If this is correct then I'm guessing it's because the Responsorial is a hymn of praise historically accompanied on the harp.

Would the title Responsorial Canticle not be correct even at today's Mass? I've always wondered about this.

[docmattc]

The non-psalm psalm happens 5 times in the 3 year cycle:
Twice at the Easter Vigil, when we have Exodus and the same bit of Isaiah we had today
The Magnificat on Gaudete year B
Daniel 3 on Trinity year A

I've never checked through the weekday lectionary.

I guess its always referred to as the psalm (even in GIRM) because more often than not (about 97% of the time) it is a psalm. Just a slightly slack attention to detail.

Wikipedia defines (so it must be right!) a canticle as a biblical hymn, excluding the psalms. So a responsorial canticle is not a responsorial psalm, but its a semantic difference rather than anything else.

[Southern Comfort]

Echoing a previous thread, it's called a responsorial psalm because it's got a response but also because it is a response. In the present case, it's called a responsorial psalm because it's a response to the first reading and because it links through to the Gospel, not because it's got a psalm.

More examples of this in the weekday lectionary.

Heigh ho!

[presbyter]

So are the songs in the OT that are not in the Book of Psalms, Psalms or Canticles?

[gwyn]

So, our weekly Mass-sheets should read,
"Resposorial - Psalm 127" rather than "Responsorial psalm - 127"
or at certain other times, "Responsorial - Canticle of Isaiah".

All interesting stuff.
Thanks for your guidance.
Nadolig Llawen i chi gyd.

Gwyn.

[Southern Comfort]

So are the songs in the OT that are not in the Book of Psalms, Psalms or Canticles?

They are non-Gospel Canticles. (That also covers the songs in the NT that aren't the Benedictus or Magnificat.)

So, our weekly Mass-sheets should read,
"Resposorial - Psalm 127" rather than "Responsorial psalm - 127"
or at certain other times, "Responsorial - Canticle of Isaiah".

I think they should read, e.g.:

Responsorial Psalm ─ Ps 127

or

Responsorial Psalm ─ Is 12

Using Responsorial as a noun is a peculiar practice found in the USA. "For the Responsorial, we'll sing...."

[gwyn]

Using Responsorial as a noun is a peculiar practice found in the USA. "For the Responsorial, we'll sing...."

So it should say "Responsorial Psalm even if it's not a psalm?
I'm confused now.

The American form seems ok to me. What am I missing?

[Southern Comfort]

So it should say "Responsorial Psalm even if it's not a psalm?
I'm confused now.

Well, GIRM 61 refers to it as the Responsorial Psalm, even when it's not sung responsorially, so I have no problem referring to it as that even if the text of the verses is not psalmic! And the same para talks about the Psalm (presumably being aware that the text of the verses is not always psalmic), so take your cue from that.

If you think of "Responsorial Psalm" as the heading for the item that follows the 1st Reading, that may help somewhat.

[gwyn]

Ah. that makes sense.
Thanks S.C.

[Mithras]

psalm = song
canticle = song

ergo.....

[gwyn]

Ipso fatso...

[presbyter]

Hang on ...... this line of argument is going to get a D- for logic if it carries on - rather like:

All elephants are grey. This blanket is grey - therefore it is an elephant. Doh!

Perhaps SC would like to expand on the literary form he calls "psalmic".

[docmattc]

Just what is a responsorial PALM anyway??

[gwyn]

Just what is a responsorial PALM anyway??

Maybe I should've posted in the "Typeos" thread.

[mcb]

Just what is a responsorial PALM anyway??

It's a gesture employed by teenage children to indicate the closure of a topic of conversation.