Celtic

[Lakelark]

Can someone tell me what is Celtic about Christopher Walker's Celtic Mass and Celtic Liturgy? Recent local research has come up with the idea that they are not to be sung by Rangers fans.

[presbyter]

Isn't the title more to do with Fintan O'Carroll than Christopher Walker?

[nazard]

in the case of the alleluia, I had always assumed that the 6/8 time was reminiscent of an Irish jig, hence the name. On the other hand, I always play it as if it were a baroque organ trio, which works very well, or so I like to think. It does sound quite irish if played by a irish style folk band.

The less kind would say that when you come across something you don't approve of, you call it after one of the neighbours, in the manner of French leave, Dutch courage and so on.

Choose whichever explanation you prefer.

[Southern Comfort]

The Alleluia itself (not the verse) is by Fintan O'Carroll. He wrote it as part of an extended entrance song. Chris Walker encountered it at an Irish Church Music Association Summer School and brought it back with him. After Fintan died, Chris added the verse to it, and at first called it Irish Alleluia. He then decided he didn't like that title and changed it to Celtic Alleluia (pronounced Keltic, not Seltic).

The Celtic Mass was born in the mind of OCP, who thought that the Celtic Alleluia was so popular that a Mass setting with the same name would be bound to be a winner in terms of sales. So they got Chris to write one, and then promoted it to the skies (unusual, since they're normally not good at promoting the music they publish). Alas, it's far from his best work, and apart from a couple of movements has no particular Irish flavour. It was simply a somewhat cynical marketing exercise by OCP, and it paid off because people bought it on the strength of the name rather than the strength of the music. The only movement from it that I use, apart from the Alleluia itself, is the Lenten Gospel Acclamation, a very typical Walker inspiration and decidedly un-Irish!

[docmattc]

people bought it on the strength of the name rather than the strength of the music.

I was one of them I bought it years ago and was very disappointed with it.

[Psalm Project]

What does un-Irish mean?
The 6/8 timing is (in folk genres) a jig - certainly is over here in the emerald isle!
However, you try singing O Carroll's Alleluia at a trad jig tempo and notes get left out!
Ever heard children's choirs singing it? It has that amazing 'laxative' effect when the kids overtake the organist... like a steeple chase!

[mcb]

...at first called it Irish Alleluia

GIA publish it under this title, and the composer's attribution is "Fintan O'Carroll, arr. by Richard Proulx". Unfortunately, in their on-line catalogue this gets reduced to "by Richard Proulx", so injustice is done again. The arrangement is nice - Proulx provides harmonised chant settings for half a dozen common verse texts for the Gospel Acclamation, so it's more Mass-friendly than Chris Walker's Te Deum version. Audio sample here, but just the refrain.

The Our Father from the Celtic Mass is nice (though to my ear strongly reminiscent of Estelle White's well-known setting). We sang it a lot a few years ago, before we stopped using sung settings of the Lord's Prayer.

[nazard]

What does un-Irish mean?
The 6/8 timing is (in folk genres) a jig - certainly is over here in the emerald isle!

You have set my imagination running wild - next St Patrix day I will send the congregation out to BWV 577 and see what effect it has on the irish contingent.

[dmu3tem]

'Celtic' has become like 'folk'. Its meaning - and usage - has changed from its origins and widened enormously in scope, partly because it is perceived as a useful sales pitch. The Walker Mass illustrates this nicely.

A more interesting question is to ask what is the opposite of 'Celtic'. Could one, for example say 'Germanic', or, with other sorts of music 'Hispanic', 'Slavonic' etc?

[HallamPhil]

You have set my imagination running wild - next St Patrix day I will send the congregation out to BWV 577 and see what effect it has on the irish contingent.[/quote]

Yes nazard but then BWV 577 is 12/8. Perhaps discerning Celts will not respond!

[alan29]

The Alleluia is commonly sung in France too. The only time I saw the notation in a hymn book it wasn't ascribed to either Mr Walker or Mr O'Carrol, but sadly I cannot for the life of me remember the (French) name that was used.

[Hare]

The Alleluia is commonly sung in France too. The only time I saw the notation in a hymn book it wasn't ascribed to either Mr Walker or Mr O'Carrol, but sadly I cannot for the life of me remember the (French) name that was used.

"Alleluia Irlandaise" - and they usually sing the last phrase wrongly: eg in G major the final "alleluia" is sung C-A-B-G-A-F#-G in 6/8 crotchet/quaver rhythm.

[organist]

I have no problem with the Celtic Alleluia and Chris himself describes it being sung in the Far East from photocopied sheets. I do think the introduction as printed in Celebration Hymnal is unhelpful and I find it irritating when people do not use the set verse setting. The real problem is that the Eucharistic acclamations are NOT acclamations but more like a meditation!

[Southern Comfort]

The Alleluia is commonly sung in France too. The only time I saw the notation in a hymn book it wasn't ascribed to either Mr Walker or Mr O'Carrol, but sadly I cannot for the life of me remember the (French) name that was used.

"Alleluia Irlandaise" - and they usually sing the last phrase wrongly: eg in G major the final "alleluia" is sung C-A-B-G-A-F#-G in 6/8 crotchet/quaver rhythm.

Not only that, but most of the semiquavers are omitted in all the other phrases, too. And the reason for this is because....

<drum roll>

....that's how they have butchered it in Lourdes for the past almost 30 years, and millions have learnt it incorrectly as a result, especially the French.

[Last time I complained about Lourdes being a seedbed for helping in the dissemination of incorrect versions of things, e.g. the multitudinous misprints in Laudate, I was roundly condemned by some. Hope that won't happen this time ─ 'cos it's true!]

[Ros Wood]

To be fair, all the notes are present in the Repetoire Multilingue which is used for the ceremonies in Lourdes and Arno tries really hard to make sure that all nationalities sing the correct notes in the choir. So the errors coming out of Lourdes are probably caused by people mis-hearing. I don't recall hearing it sung incorrectly in Lourdes.