Organ Voluntaries

[Mithras]

Apologies if this has been rasied before; it has been a fairly hot topic on another discussion forum to which I contribute (Mander's discussion board) but is it correct to assert that the voluntary at the end of Mass should be seen as part of the liturgy? I know that we are told that the Mass is ended and go in peace but I haver always tried to match up the voluntary with the theme of the liturgy. This is easy at Christmas and Easter of course, and other feasts such as Ascension (hello JSB!). But why do people - including, I regret to say, choiristers - imagine that this is the appropriate tine to discuss yesterday's match, or the forthcoming roast beef, or Auntie Edna's "problems"? A few years ago I went to Denmark and Sweden and attended a couple of Lutheran services and was amazed at the attention and respect given to the voluntary (and thus the organist) by the congregation. There was even a voluntary between the gospel and homily which was eveidently the norm. Compare this with a Mass I attended last year in Westminster Cathedral where during the voluntary people were wandering round taking photos (despite there being a notice prohibiting this).

Thoughts, please, on the role of the voluntary at Mass. A summing up? A commentary? A prayer>

[Nick Baty]

An organist friend – now no longer with us – put huge effort into planning his voluntaries. But often the origins of the pieces were lost on most of us so we just heard it as rather nice music. (Unless he was playing the heavy French stuff in which case he could empty the church faster than a bomb alarm.)

Another thought – what about those people who wish to pray after Mass. Should the organist consider them too and shut up? (That is just a question not a pointy finger, I hasten to add.)

I'm sure it must be irritating for the organist if folk chatter but if they've paid attention for so long it is surely good that they're asking about Ernie's hernia and Miriam's hysterectomy. A neighbouring church has a notice which reads: "Talk to God before Mass and to each other afterwards".

[Mithras]

Another thought – what about those people who wish to pray after Mass. Should the organist consider them too and shut up? (That is just a question not a pointy finger, I hasten to add.)

Perhaps they could pray through the music? Just a thought.

[Nick Baty]

And it's a good thought. I suppose I was speaking of the loud discordant stuff which some organists (I'm sure not your good self) occasionally put us through. Would you agree there's a tendency for some organists to choose such stuff at the end of Mass? Must admit though, I'd have more problems if they were playing Bach because I'd be picturing the chordal progressions and sequences as shapes in my mind. (Really must stop using WF's Cello Concerto in A in the car as it makes me speed.)

Of course, many of us sing something during the ministers' exit procession so an ensuing voluntary can be superfluous (many would argue that this hymn is too). A play-out voluntary is rather different from a post-song voluntary, if you see what I mean.

[Mithras]

. I suppose I was speaking of the loud discordant stuff which some organists (I'm sure not your good self) occasionally put us through. Would you agree there's a tendency for some organists to choose such stuff at the end of Mass?

I have been known to put in some Messiaen: in fact many years ago I played the Entree from Messe de la Pentecote during the offertory on Pentecost Sunday (having previously discussed it with the celebrant who gave a brief announcement about it) and this resulted an anonymous letter of complaint from a parishoner which the PP told me to ignore. Last week it was harmless enough, Purcell's Trumpet Tune.

The same PP once preached on Our Lady, and used the Gershwin song Lady Be Good as an example (something to do with a person who went to church to pray but had no Catholic background and when he saw a statue of Mary could only come up with Lady Be Good - same person later became a Catholic). At the offertory I improvised on Lady Be Good. Coming down from the organ loft I half expected a ticking off but was rewarded with a compliment for "creative liturgy".

[Nick Baty]

many years ago I played the Entree from Messe de la Pentecote during the offertory

God is full of compassion.

I improvised on Lady Be Good. Coming down from the organ loft I half expected a ticking off but was rewarded with a compliment for "creative liturgy".

A helluva lot better than In bread we bring you.. All that I am etc. We were asked recently to include the theme tune from Cabaret at a Golden Wedding Mass because the couple felt it illustrated their ups and down. (Needless to say, we didn't.)

And who was the organist who managed to weave in the theme from Thunderbirds?

[Mithras]

And who was the organist who managed to weave in the theme from Thunderbirds?

Erm, well I did play it at my last recital ....

[Nick Baty]

Think one I was referring to managed to get it in during Communion!

[Mithras]

Think one I was referring to managed to get it in during Communion!

That's quite bizzare - what was the theme of the Mass? (Perhaps it was something to do with that evangelical hymn Rescue the Perishing )

[Nick Baty]

Now stop it or we'll be moving onto the 15th August which is off-topic!

[Mithras]

Now stop it or we'll be moving onto the 15th August which is off-topic!

Your allusion to the Assumption has me baffled. It's a long way from Tracy Island to Palestine!

[presbyter]

So where's this Mithraeum in Cardiff then? Must be pretty big to contain an organ that can cope with Messiaen.

[Nick Baty]

Your allusion to the Assumption has me baffled.

I was thinking of Thunderbird 3!

[presbyter]

So where's this Mithraeum in Cardiff then? Must be pretty big to contain an organ that can cope with Messiaen.

Oooo - it's not in cardiff - it's in Caernarfon - I wonder if they slaughter bulls there.

[Mithras]

So where's this Mithraeum in Cardiff then? Must be pretty big to contain an organ that can cope with Messiaen.

Oooo - it's not in cardiff - it's in Caernarfon - I wonder if they slaughter bulls there.

St Peter's, Roath. 3 manual Speath though the Messiaen was played on the previous 2 manual Shakell and Thompson, now demolished DG. No bulls were harmed in the making of this message.