Music & Liturgy for non-members

[Nick Baty]

Music & Liturgy is a pretty superb publication and should be more widely available.

I suggested to a committee member recently that perhaps it could be made available to non-members for an annual subscription. She told me that, under the existing arrangement, this is not possible as M&L is not sold but given as a freebie to SSG members.

But why couldn't it be sold?
Would that be any different from the other products the SSG sells?
And surely it would bring some extra funds into the society's coffers.

Just a thought.

[Southern Comfort]

I don't know what the SSG's policy is about this, but I believe that Church Music, in the days when Bill Tamblyn was editing it (before the Church Music Association returned to the bosom of the Society), could be purchased at station newspaper stalls, etc. It might be worth asking Bill how this was achieved. Maybe W H Smith distributed it?

[Nick Baty]

These days Smiths makes demands on cover design, has a national policy on where particular publications are placed on its magazine stands and demands a guarantee of X thousand sales, that's how they make their money. I think the issue is more to do with the SSG's charitable status and tax. But I'm sure there must be a way round it.

[oopsorganist]

Would it be possible for members to have more than one copy, if they pay for the extra copies? I know I could use another copy in my parish, if not more, because Father likes to have a look at it too. How much would they cost? One pinned on the notice board might be a great deal of use to everyone!

[Alan]

When I was on t'committee, this excellent idea came up regularly. I don't fully recollect what the 'legal' issues were, but it was something to do with 'member benefits', preventing us from charging members for the mag. A more practical difficulty was, and is, that, if it were to be offered on the high street or in, say, St Paul's Multimedia, for a realistic price, quite a few SSG members - those who, for whatever reason, take no active part in SSG activities beyond reading the mag (and using the liturgy planner) - might opt to buy it there and terminate their membership. Since it is membership subscriptions that (quite properly) pay for the Society's operational costs (as well as the mag), that could be a problem. On the other hand, IF loads of copies were sold to non-members it is possible that sufficient income might be generated; with economies of scale the unit cost per copy would be reduced, for example. However, and perhaps understandably, committee has never felt able to take that risk. Also, if it did go down that road, the magazine would almost certainly need to be much less focused on the Society and its members.

I think the membership gets good value for its subscription. Apart from the magazine/planner (which pays its willing contributors and editors quite derisory sums), there is the Composer's Group (led by unpaid volunteers), this forum/website (ditto), an annual Summer School and sundry smaller events. While many of these activities are open to all, not just members, they would not necessarily happen if the SSG were constituted differently,

My point is that much of this seems to depend on retaining the magazine as a 'free' member benefit.

[Alan]

These days Smiths makes demands on cover design, has a national policy on where particular publications are placed on its magazine stands and demands a guarantee of X thousand sales, that's how they make their money. I think the issue is more to do with the SSG's charitable status and tax. But I'm sure there must be a way round it.

I don't think we are in that league. SSG members have, to the best of my knowledge, never been numbered in thousands, nor, I suspect, are there that many other UK people sufficiently interested in liturgy and music. Also, as you suggest, the Society would have to factor in the wholesalers' discount (35-50% ??).

Don't misunderstand me: if a way could be found to do this, I'd be all for it.

(I think that Oops's idea of extra copies is already possible. The Membership Secretary could probably help you with that.)

[monty]

Sounds as if the SSG would then need to employ people to ensure deadlines are strictly met - no early or late deliveries.

It would be interesting to read how Bill Tamblyn managed things.

If the real issue is just extra copies then surely that can be done perhaps for an additional charge?

Oooh, there could be a sliding scale for whoever asked for an extra copy. If they are liked £2, if not £20.

[musicus]

Oooh, there could be a sliding scale for whoever asked for an extra copy. If they are liked £2, if not £20.

[Julie-AnnG]

Would it be possible for members to have more than one copy, if they pay for the extra copies? I know I could use another copy in my parish, if not more, because Father likes to have a look at it too. How much would they cost? One pinned on the notice board might be a great deal of use to everyone!

Yes, it's certainly possible for members to receive extra copies of the journal. In fact, it's something we definite try to encourage.

For members in the UK, the cost is £20 for each additional copy required. For that, you get one additional copy of all issues for twelve months (with the copies all sent to one address). There are more details in the journal - on page 2 in the latest issue.

Hope that helps.

It would be great to see a copy of the journal pinned onto the notice board in every parish. Sounds good to me!

[Julie-AnnG]

Oooh, there could be a sliding scale for whoever asked for an extra copy. If they are liked £2, if not £20.

It's not that I don't like you, or anything. I love you all - honest! But I'm afraid it has to be £20, as the bills have to be paid!

[PaulW]

More seriously, what price would you be prepared to pay for Music and Liturgy?

If Society of Saint Gregory did employ a team of people to work on the production, then it would be easier to demand of them that deadlines were a) set and b) met. As it is, the operation is run on a shoestring by people who try everso hard to fit it in around their day jobs - no tall order. Our deadline is to get the next issue out in good time before the planning part runs out which, unless I am very much mistaken, we manage to achieve.

Nick has suggested, privately, that the planner should come out a season earlier to enable longer term planning; I have a lot of sympathy with this, but when the planner did come out earlier, the membership secretary had enqiries from members who claimed that they'd never received the issue, when in fact they'd simply had it three months before, put it 'somewhere safe', and forgotten it.

One other thing springs to mind: when the back issues were for sale on this website, there were absolutely no orders ever. This, and a number of other things, makes the editors wonder whether the membership only uses the Preparing the Liturgy for Sundays and Feastdays supplement and disregards the rest. Is the journal redundant: should we only be producing a 'planner'? Are any of the articles and regular columns useful? What can be improved (superb as Nick describes it - and thank-you for that positive vote, Nick - there must be room for change, growth, improvement in Music and Liturgy surely)?

We've an editors' meeting coming up in a couple of weeks. I'll raise any answers for discussion at the meeting and then feedback to you.

[docmattc]

if it were to be offered on the high street [...] for a realistic price, quite a few SSG members [... ] might opt to buy it there and terminate their membership.

Exactly, the annual journal subscription would have to be greater than the membership fee, so why would anyone opt for this rather than for membership? For an annual subscription of the membership fee, anyone gets the journal free of charge.

[NorthernTenor]

An interesting idea.

Some of you may be aware of an alternative take on this. The Church Music Association of America publishes its quarterly journal to paying members. At a later date it goes into the CMAA's web archive as a PDF file. It seems to work - they ain't broke yet (though they do have the advantage of the US fund-raising culture and tax breaks for donors). Membership costs are broadly comparable.

[Nick Baty]

Why does it all need to be so complicated?
Simply allow non-members to take out an annual subscription of £30 for the magazine.
No extra work apart from the posting out but extra cash coming in.
Or am I missing something here?

[NorthernTenor]

Why does it all need to be so complicated?
Simply allow non-members to take out an annual subscription of £30 for the magazine.
No extra work apart from the posting out but extra cash coming in.
Or am I missing something here?

Complication is often the result of uncertainty. in this case, the questions to be resolved are:

1. What is the liklely demand?
2. What would be the marginal cost of meeting it (and hence potential profit/loss)?
3. Would there be any legal/regulatory problems, in particular arising from the Society's status as a registed charity?
4. Would it be desirable, on educational grounds, to sell at cost or give free access online to old copies after a reasonable period?