Music and prayer

[organist]

Fr Lawrence Lew has an excellent address on this at
http://godzdogz.op.org/

[mcb]

(I don't think he's "Fr", actually.)

[organist]

Oops!

[oopsorganist]

Yes? What is it Organist?

I disagree that Gregorian chant is analogous to the Scriptures. I think that is daft. Is that what it really said? Might just as well say that something Farrell has written is analogous to the Scriptures. That is written down too. Actually not sure what that means. And those monks are dead what wrote it, whilst Farrell is alive. I know what I mean. Not too keen on monks, although I like that bit at the end of Fantasia.

[Benevenio]

Would you prefer religious who do this?

[oopsorganist]

Yes thankyou

that made a nice change.

[oopsorganist]

But I should also have said that I have seen that before
sent me by my favourite monk.......but sadly he does not sing like that .....he likes jazz and any hymns......especially All that I am.

[nazard]

This music isn't my scene, but it does resemble what my children like. They say it isn't a good example of the genre (not exactly the words they used, but this is a civilised board) but admire him for trying. What really gets to them is hymns in the style of 1960's pop songs or A Ll W show choruses being put on because "its what the youth want."

They suggest we send Brother Wotsizname to Glasto next year.

[oopsorganist]

Heavy metal is probably not going to be that good for the Sunday Mass.......and my kids agree too about the God Pop or God Rock (they hear some of this at their school)...

but this I like
On Youtube Kyrie and Gloria (Mass of Rejoicing) Father Rick ... you will have to google because I can't link
and Rise Up My People

I never thought of using You tube for listening to stuff. I was after finding out if there is a descant for Celtic Mass Holy Holy and kind of got sidetracked.

I suppose even when the Benedictines started chanting, people said, oh dear I don't like all this modern stuff. I still don't see how its analagous to Scripture. Still don't know what that means. Better google it. But might get sidetracked. Oh well.

[sidvicius]

Link for above:

Oops' YouTube Music

...and for all you monastic Speed Metal Heads out there (thousands no doubt):

Fratello Metal

sid'

[docmattc]

I still don't see how its analagous to Scripture. Still don't know what that means.

I think what he's trying to say is that just as the authors of Scripture were divinely inspired to write down the texts of the bible (including its sacred music found in both Hebrew and new testaments), so the authors of chant and polyphony were also divinely inspired.
The flaw with the article however is (as I see it) that it fails to recognise the possibility that music written now could equally be divinely inspired.
The author correctly says that the church must maintain high standards and be a place where beauty is at home, but that beauty could be found in melismatic plainsong sung by his Dominican community, and equally in piece of Taize sung well and prayerfully by your average parish. We cannot define beautiful music by genre alone, excecution is also a major factor (and I've heard plainsong executed in all senses of the word).

The second Vatican Council did indeed say that the treasure of sacred music should be preserved, and so it should, but it also instructed composers to continue composing.

[oopsorganist]

Thankyou for being coherent Docmttc!

Is there music in the NT? I thought was just Psalms and such in the Scriptures.

We are in an age where ICT could be used effectively (not be me of course, I can't even plug things in ) there is scope for so much creativity, so much at our finger tips! I was subjected to Chant recently using ICT and I just though, oh my goodness, couldn't they do something more interesting with that zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Chant may be a church treasure but ..................................................................
(finish sentence as preferred).

[docmattc]

Is there music in the NT? I thought was just Psalms and such in the Scriptures.

There's a goodly selection:
Magnificat Lk 1:46-55
Benedictus Lk 1:68-79
Nunc Dimittis Lk 229-32
opening lines of the Gloria Lk 2:14
Intro to John's Gospel
Probably Philippians 2:5-11
probably 2Timothy 2:11-13
Rev 5:9-11
In Rev 19:6 you'll find the Hallelujah Chorus

Possibly much more alluded to in Paul's letters and such, but I'm no biblical scholar and its getting late.

[musicus]

In Rev 19:6 you'll find the Hallelujah Chorus

Some of the earliest manuscripts even include the musical notation, (though the words are in Greek, of course). Some scholars believe that this piece may explain the practice of standing during the Eucharistic Prayer.

[organist]

Now that is interesting! German scholars of course so they stand just like German/English kings.