It would seem that tomorrow, the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord, the Holy Father will celebrate Mass at the Sistine Chapel's older altar. Anyone who's been following the recent Masses from the Vatican, and who has read what Joseph Ratzinger had to say on the direction of liturgical prayer might be interested in taking a peek.
Apparently you can get a live feed from Vatican TV but I've not been very successful with that over the last few weeks, I've been luckier with http://www.ewtn.com (click on Television, Live TV - English and then select appropriate options for your internet speed) they'll be showing Mass live at 9am our time. If, like me, you'll be somewhat busy at that time there are two repeats. My conversions from EST to GMT are not necessarily to be trusted, but I think the most convenient repeat for viewers this side of the Atlantic is at 17.00 tomorrow evening. For me this will be my first experience of Mass in the Ordinary Form celebrated facing the same way as the people...interested to see how it pans out, when B XVI faces the people and when he doesn't, whether he indulges in a little liturgical catechesis in the homily etc etc...
Mass from Sistine Chapel, 13.01.08
Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir
Re: Mass from Sistine Chapel, 13.01.08
Don't know if anyone else watched but, aside from him losing his ring - which seemed to be the highlight of the Mass as far as some journalists were concerned, it all seemed rather low key to me.
Mass was celebrated in Italian rather than the Latin which has predominated over the Christmas season. EP II was used, presumably for sound pastoral reasons involving small children(!) but I thought that was quite unexpected in the circumstances. No incense, but torch bearers. Singing was also fairly low-key (and not as pleasant as we come to expect from being used to English choristers) - said Gloria, in Italian, (can't find an emoticon for the raised eyebrow), Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus in Latin and Greek.
I don't know if it's appropriate to refer to the HF as a wily old bird, but I think he is. First public celebration of Mass versus apsidem and he keeps the rest of the Mass as 'Vatican II' as possible - and please don't pull me up on Vat II having nothing to do with mass facing the people - I know! Anyway my traddy friends would have been cackling if it had been predominantly in Latin with incense, EP I etc. etc. as it is they're scratching their heads wondering what will be next. I rather like the fact that he's steered a middle course on this one and not overly wound up either 'side'.
Mass was celebrated in Italian rather than the Latin which has predominated over the Christmas season. EP II was used, presumably for sound pastoral reasons involving small children(!) but I thought that was quite unexpected in the circumstances. No incense, but torch bearers. Singing was also fairly low-key (and not as pleasant as we come to expect from being used to English choristers) - said Gloria, in Italian, (can't find an emoticon for the raised eyebrow), Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus in Latin and Greek.
I don't know if it's appropriate to refer to the HF as a wily old bird, but I think he is. First public celebration of Mass versus apsidem and he keeps the rest of the Mass as 'Vatican II' as possible - and please don't pull me up on Vat II having nothing to do with mass facing the people - I know! Anyway my traddy friends would have been cackling if it had been predominantly in Latin with incense, EP I etc. etc. as it is they're scratching their heads wondering what will be next. I rather like the fact that he's steered a middle course on this one and not overly wound up either 'side'.
-
nazard
- Posts: 555
- Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:08 am
- Parish / Diocese: Clifton
- Location: Muddiest Somerset
Re: Mass from Sistine Chapel, 13.01.08
I think that the Holy Father is being very wise indeed. My memories of the changes following the council is that they were put into effect without any regard for people's feelings whatsoever, and the net result was a mass walkout from the church which is still not quite yet finished. The most important thing about wherever we go from here is that it is done with sensetivity and care so that all nembers of the chuch can feel that they belong.
Re: Mass from Sistine Chapel, 13.01.08
First, the Holiness has been very prudent in celebrating in this manner, using the current Missal rather than that of John XXIII. The arguments from Tradition and from architecture seem to be the strongest for 'Eastward facing', 'ad Dominum', or whatever favoured title is at the moment.
As for the theological reasons, I wonder if the questions are clear.
'Everyone is facing the same way'
This can be an antidote to congregationalism, but does it protect against individualism?
'Facing East is an Eschatological perspective'
Again, this has its beauty, but the presence of Christ on the altar is the same, no matter what direction is being faced. I would quibble strongly against notions of 'liturgical east', because they set up a liturgical fiction and turn the liturgy into an alternative reality. Symbols are essential, valuable and beautiful, but they point to the reality rather than merely imitate them.
The Person of the Priest predominates when Mass is celebrated facing the people
This only happens when it is allowed to happen. The celebration facing east is still open to abuse in this manner - just look at some of the celebrations where 'Fr X is the Celebrant; Fr Y is the Deacon, Fr Z is the subdeacon' - the same criticism could just as easily be levelled here, particularly when the priests concerned are well-known and have a certain following.
The Pope, several years ago now, made clear that an East-facing celebration has nothing whatsoever to do with the Tabernacle. He said that to think of celebrating 'from presence, to presence' (i.e. Altar to Tabernacle) was plainly meaningless.
If my issues are valid, what does the Eastward-celebration actually mean?
Addendum:
It is well known that there are people with an agenda who would like to push the current missal away and return to its predecessor. They are not hard to find, and some of them are deeply unpleasant about the direction the Church has taken (or can appear to have taken) over recent decades. These are not usually the same people who, having grown up under the earlier form of the Rite, have a deep attachment to it - it seems that this latter group are the ones the Pope is trying to help. The others persist, however, and the way some of them treat the bishops is quite dispicable at times.
As for the theological reasons, I wonder if the questions are clear.
'Everyone is facing the same way'
This can be an antidote to congregationalism, but does it protect against individualism?
'Facing East is an Eschatological perspective'
Again, this has its beauty, but the presence of Christ on the altar is the same, no matter what direction is being faced. I would quibble strongly against notions of 'liturgical east', because they set up a liturgical fiction and turn the liturgy into an alternative reality. Symbols are essential, valuable and beautiful, but they point to the reality rather than merely imitate them.
The Person of the Priest predominates when Mass is celebrated facing the people
This only happens when it is allowed to happen. The celebration facing east is still open to abuse in this manner - just look at some of the celebrations where 'Fr X is the Celebrant; Fr Y is the Deacon, Fr Z is the subdeacon' - the same criticism could just as easily be levelled here, particularly when the priests concerned are well-known and have a certain following.
The Pope, several years ago now, made clear that an East-facing celebration has nothing whatsoever to do with the Tabernacle. He said that to think of celebrating 'from presence, to presence' (i.e. Altar to Tabernacle) was plainly meaningless.
If my issues are valid, what does the Eastward-celebration actually mean?
Addendum:
It is well known that there are people with an agenda who would like to push the current missal away and return to its predecessor. They are not hard to find, and some of them are deeply unpleasant about the direction the Church has taken (or can appear to have taken) over recent decades. These are not usually the same people who, having grown up under the earlier form of the Rite, have a deep attachment to it - it seems that this latter group are the ones the Pope is trying to help. The others persist, however, and the way some of them treat the bishops is quite dispicable at times.