Boy Bishop

[mcb]

I see that Westminster Cathedral have revived the medieval custom of the Boy Bishop. I've read the description (in the Cathedral Administrator's blog) and I have to say I simply can't see the point of the tradition. What on earth is it about? Looks completely barmy to me. Have I missed something?

M.

(Incidentally, why does Westminster have an Administrator and not, as other Cathedrals have these days, a Dean? Because the role of Dean isn't traditional?)

[estuaire]

The so-called "Dean of Westminster" is a royal appointment to Her Majesty's Parish Church (benefice attached). Since Catholics are not permitted to "usurp" Anglican titles then the exception to the new title of Dean in Catholic Cathedrals, was that of Westminster.

As to Boy bishops, I do believe that Middlesborough already has one. In a Cathedral where there are no boy choristers perhaps a suitably short member of the choir - or even a "youthful" director of music - could fulfill the role !!!!!!!

[mcb]

Can that be the explanation? A cathedral dean presumably takes the title 'Dean of X Cathedral', rather than 'Dean of X'. Our own gran jefe isn't Dean of Salford, I think.

As to the other matter, obviously if we had a youthful choirmaster this might be true; but I'd go so far as to say ours is more on the youthless side. Or something that sounds almost the same.

Can we have a Girl Bishop, then? In our choir the average age of the women is twenty-five or thirty years below that of the men. (No kidding!) Not sure what the explanation is: answers on a postcard please.

M.

[presbyter]

I clicked the blog - and didn't get as far as the Boy Bishop.

Just stunned by the first sentence:

"Westminster Cathedral is the mother church of the Roman Catholic community in England and Wales. "

Might one ask what sort of ecclesiology that statement espouses? It sounds akin to that erroneous epithet oft heard/seen in the media that the Archbishop of Westminster is "Head of the Catholic Church" in England and Wales.

Dear Westminster - go read Lumen Gentium and Canon Law on the Bishop as vicar/ambassador of Christ in his own diocese - and each diocesan cathedral as "mother church".

[edbowie]

Deans of Anglican Cathedrals tend to include the name of the town in their title without the suffix 'cathedral'. This no doubt harks back to a time when religion played a more prominent part in the public life of our cities than it does these days. Mark Langham retains the title of Administrator to avoid confusion with the Dean of Westminster. As for Westminster Cathedral being the Mother RC Church in England, I think most Roman Catholics in this country would recognise this to be the case. Indeed, I would imagine that the Archbishop of Westminster, who is President of the Bishop's Conference of England and Wales, will be the Papal Nuncio's principal source of advice abt appointments etc in England and Wales. As for the cathedral itself it may be the mother church but it is to be admired rather than loved. The music is outstanding but as far as architecture is concerned, I think Liverpool and Clifton have stronger claims.

As for the Boy Bishop ceremony, I agree it is nonsense. No doubt something else that will cause angst amongst choir parents.

[estuaire]

Whether or not most Catholics in this country think the DIOCESE of Westminster to be the "be all and end all" of Catholic life in this country... IT IS NOT.
Each and every individual Bishop in this country have equal rank in the Church and look to no other Bishop for Primacy but the Bishop of Rome. Thus the head of the Catholic Church in Westminster is the Cardinal, south of the river it is the Archbishop of Southwark. North of Watford Gap.... which DOES exist, by the way, we have any other number of Bishops who are HEAD of the Catholic Church in their respective Diocese.
Vatican II is quite clear on this.
the role of president of the Bishop's conference need not be the Archbishop of Westminster. If the Bishop of Hallam were elected President of the Bishop's Conference, would this make him head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales. I think not.

[presbyter]

Each and every individual Bishop in this country have equal rank in the Church and look to no other Bishop for Primacy but the Bishop of Rome.

Not quite. I think there are some very special (and rare) circumstances where the Metropolitan (Archbishop) can exercise oversight in other dioceses in his province. I don't have Canon Law to hand so don't ask me what they are.

[mcb]

...very special (and rare) circumstances where the Metropolitan (Archbishop) can exercise oversight in other dioceses in his province.

When a diocese is vacant and the cathedral chapter can't agree on the appointment of a diocesan administrator, it's the metropolitan's job to appoint one. Maybe there are other circumstances too?

M.

[nazard]

...as far as architecture is concerned, I think Liverpool and Clifton have stronger claims.

If you like Clifton Cathedral, please take it away. I always think that it looks as though the shuttering collapsed when they were pouring the concrete. Surely that odd shape must be an accident?

The acoustic leaves a lot to be desired too. If you're in there at a quiet time try standing at the sanctuary step and singing "Amen" and listen to the echoes. Great for du Fay, but a dead loss for anything later.

Westminster Cathedral does look very dull on the inside, a bit like the workshops of Albericht the dwarf, but the decorated bits are stunning. If God spares me long enough to see it, it should look pretty good in five hundred years time. The outside gives Clifton a run for its money in the ugliness stakes. A few Virginia Creepers or Hydrangea Petiolaris might be a good idea.

I have always admired Liverpool, but I believe the acoustic there gives problems too.

[presbyter]

When a diocese is vacant and the cathedral chapter can't agree on the appointment of a diocesan administrator, it's the metropolitan's job to appoint one.

So can he appoint a Boy Bishop? (just getting back on topic )

[presbyter]

Indeed, I would imagine that the Archbishop of Westminster, who is President of the Bishop's Conference of England and Wales, will be the Papal Nuncio's principal source of advice abt appointments etc in England and Wales.

Depends on the province. In Canon Law it's the immediate Metropolitan who is first in the list to be consulted. So if Shrewsbury needs a Bishop, the first port of call is the Archbishop of Birmingham .... then the national conference .... etc

see Canon 377§2

[presbyter]

See Canons 435 to 438 on the duties of the Metropolitan.

Here

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1J.HTM

[presbyter]

Our own gran jefe isn't Dean of Salford, I think

But he might be the Dean of the Salford Deanery. Our Cathedral Dean is Dean of the Cathedral Deanery ..... we keep re-electing him because no one else wants the job.

[presbyter]

Maybe there are other circumstances too?

A canon lawyer informs me that the Metropolitan steps in (in accord with the canons cited) if the local Ordinary has manifestly gone bonkers. Ha!

[estuaire]

I am reliably informed that the Dean of Salford Deanery is not one and the same as the Dean of Salford Cathedral. If he were he would require two seats at Deanery Conference which I am told takes place in the Cathedral House.
All of the above points regarding the roles and responsibilities of a Metropolitan do not invalidate my point that no Bishop outranks another within his Diocese (unless he is an auxiliary to the ordinary).
When a Diocese is in need of an Apostolic Administrator the Chapter of Canons provides a recommendation to the Archbishop and/or the nuncio. The AA is then appointed by Rome.
The Archbishop of Westminster has no Primatial role, unlike Rome, Lyons, Toledo, Warsaw, and Armagh.
Canterbury has been a Vacant See since the Reformation and so we have no Primate in England even "Inter Pares".