Article in Catholic Herald

[asb]

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/feature ... e%202.html

I find this encouraging!

[nazard]

So do I. Let's hope its catching!

[johnquinn39]

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features_opinion/feature%202.html

I find this encouraging!

Yes, I also find this encouraging. However, I think that there is a danger of forgetting that the music serves the liturgy, and not the other way round.
There is indeed decent music in the RC church - the music of today, composed for the vernacular liturgy. Names such as Bernadette Farrell, Marty Haugen, Bob Hurd and Stephen Dean come to mind.
Also many of the hymns of the Rev. John Bell and Bishop Timothy Dudley-Smith and the music of Taize transfer very well into the Catholic eucharist.
It is relatively easy to search out and perform masterpieces from the past, but we need to ask if performing these actually leads into a greater understanding of the liturgy. If it does - fine!. If it does not then I feel we are putting on a performance, and not actually entering into the texts of the Mass.
I am not sure that singing in Latin results in a greater understanding of psalmody and the EP.
In my parish, I have found that "happy-clappy" songs are very popular with people who were young in the 1960's.
Should we exclude people of this age group? They are part of the congregation, and I would never want to exclude their music, provided that the text is scriptural and true.
There really is no excuse for downright bad music in our Sunday Eucharist, but I feel that if we are always looking backward, we will never look forward. Surely new masterpieces will emerge. And would it be better to sing good, workable music, even if it is transitory (all art is, I suppose) if it enables God's word to sink into our hearts?

[asb]

'Ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go!!

[docmattc]

The article creates the impression that the diet is pretty much only pre-1600 music in that parish. I wonder though whether in fact the parish might have a very varied diet but it suits the (conservative) editorial persuasions of the Herald to imply otherwise.

The article does say they've amalgamated the different groups (guitar vs choir/organ) into the same Mass and even the same piece. Very commendable in my book. That doesn't sound like a diet made up exclusively of Byrd/Victoria to me!

I'd like to know what the reality is in the parish featured in the article, rather than the Herald's take on it.

[Benevenio]

I'd like to know that too! And I didn't know Britney had written anything liturgical…

It was interesting to read Chris' post elsewhere as well, and it struck me that, a) his skill and enthusiasm will be infectious and the children will respond to that and b) like most children, they are happiest investigating new things and playing with them and then moving on to the next new thing to discover what that is about. That period when a child first walks and talks fascinates me still. It's exciting just to witness it. Perhaps we adults forget how exciting life can be when discovering things for the first time and instead stick to the routine, the tried and tested, especially in Church… or it is just the liturgical model we work with?!

Now, when Scripture gives us many references to singing a new song (eg [bible]ps 33:3[/bible], [bible]ps 40:3[/bible], [bible]ps 96:1[/bible], [bible]ps 98:1[/bible], [bible]ps 144:9[/bible], [bible]Is 42:10[/bible], [bible]re 5:9[/bible] and [bible]re 14:3[/bible] for a start) - and presuming that the Scriptures are a good authority upon which to act (and you can argue about that in a different thread!) - it raises the question of what you are doing to foster our text writers and composers so that they give you good material that you want to use rather than, to use a modern term, just dissing all recently-written music and texts, especially guitar-based songs? (or is that an interpretation of [bible]Am 5:23[/bible]? )

We have to be like children to enter the kingdom of heaven, so we're told. Maybe it's about time we remembered how exciting it is to discover new things; maybe we should foster those who are generating the new material; and maybe too we must not forget that for the next generation, the treasury of our musical heritage is unknown and so is 'new' too.

And, as an aside, if you were to come to our parish this Lent, you'd find the guitar group singing chant, not the choir… so you never can tell!

[gwyn]

I find this encouraging!

Me too. Fantastic.

[nazard]

For some years now the Chaplaincies at Oxford and Cambridge have been pursuing a musical line I can only describe as exemplary. They provide a mix of music of all periods, from plainsong to modern. The standard of instrumental playing is excellent. They do seem to avoid the questionable end of modern music. I find it fascinating to see what young people do when left to themselves.

It is very different from how it was when I was a student. I went along to the chaplaincy on the first Sunday and heard guitars strumming at mass for the first time in my life. For the rest of my time I went to the parish church. Since then I have mellowed a little, I think because the repertoire has improved. They really did play Kumbaya back then.

Does anyone know what the other chaplaincies do for their music?

[Sonoqui]

And, as an aside, if you were to come to our parish this Lent, you'd find the guitar group singing chant, not the choir… so you never can tell!

Hmmm! Sounds intriguing. Looking forward to this Lent in 'our' parish!

[sidvicius]

Does anyone know what the other chaplaincies do for their music?

Bit off topic, but from my experience it's nowhere near as promising as the article above. One might say that the true future of the Catholic church is found in chaplaincies, but as all chaplaincies seem to operate independently, what is offered both in lit and mus depends very much on the local chaplain and his/her students, a rapidly changing group. It can be good, but would improve with some national co-ordination. Support for students is pretty much there, but formation is not.

For an idea of how variable the situation is, just google "cathsoc".

I think the article is cause for celebration though. If children aren't stretched they won't grow. Like teaching them to swim - start early.

[Anne]

I started as a University Chaplain last September.

When I started, my biggest challenge was the liturgy planning. I found that the students, who have mainly been through the Catholic School system, have a very limited repertoire of hymns. They only seemed to know hymns which I learned at primary school in the late 60s and early 70s, hymns which I thought had died a natural death.

Since September we have learned quite a few things written by Farrell, Haughen, Haas, Dean etc and we now have a healthier selection of Mass settings, psalm tones and hymns. We have still got a long way to go, but we are getting there slowly. The only instruments we have are one violin and one guitar but they are played sensitively and well.

I would love to have a richer repertoire of music, and I would love to have an organ or a piano to accompany some of what we sing. But we can only use the talent we have

I find that the students are keen and eager to learn new stuff, and they are very interested in liturgy. My sadness is that they have to wait until they get to university before they discover the riches of our liturgy and learn some decent liturgical music.

[gwyn]

My sadness is that they have to wait until they get to university before they discover the riches of our liturgy and learn some decent liturgical music.

Indeed.

[VML]

Is this the fault of the schools or the parishes?

I am ashamed to say that I don't think any of my four graduate offspring went near the chaplaincy at uni, which saddened me, but I simply don't know the answer.

On the other hand, one who didn't go to uni, but took a year out with Faith Alive received a far better grounding in his Faith in their six weeks' induction than he ever received in 14 years at Catholic schools.

[sidvicius]

Maybe VML proves that the young have to seek it, and enjoy it, not have a 'facade' of faith (e.g. church on sunday = faith? I think not) 'pushed' upon them? Religion, and/or study of theology is however, growing in popularity. Many faith groups (including *ahem* paganism) are growing too, at universities. I don't think it's seen as 'uncool' but you have to be a bit circumspect about who you broadcast your faith to. I don't like to apportion 'blame' - it's too easy to say "I blame so-and-so" etc. 'We' are the church after all - we are our own collective responsibility, and we all have a part to play in how our young people comprehend what 'our' church should be.

To anne I say that it sounds like you are doing good things. Try not be discouraged by where they are starting from and look forward to where you can take them to! Just expect it to take time. Unfortunately (?!) lots of other things are going on at university (even study), and it's hard to follow a narrow path when you're blinded by the dazzling lights of the material world.

[organist]

Couldn't get to the original but I agree with Sidvicius. We are the church and we have a responsibility to teach the young both in the parish and in our schools. Why not talk to the teachers and find out what they know? Make sensible suggestions about liturgy in schools. Do not be discouraged! And NEVER underestimate the young - they are far more accepting than our older generation! Kids will sing anything given the right leadership and encouragement - mind you Latin can be a struggle! "Why do we have to sing this?" I used to get my choir to sing the numbers to a scale in different languages. We had some Vietnamese girls so we all learnt Vietnamese numbers. We are a UNIVERSAL Catholic church and we ought to think universal! We sing African songs in Swahili - why not? The Migrants Mass at Westminster Cathedral last May was a great occasion celebrating unity in diversity and how much we need migrants! And we all happily snag in Spanish, Swahili, whatever!