Society of Saint Gregory

This is running in tandem with "top ten hymns" on the general discussion forum.
The idea: choose examples of songs that you deem to be good, based on the following criteria:

scriptural authenticity,
theological and liturgical soundness,
soundness of musical setting i.e. text fits melody, music suits mood of text,
the ability of a song to move one to prayer. [added 19.02.04]
any other criteria you choose to mention.

It will be interesting to see the correlation between most popular and most highly rated.

As this is the Composers' forum, you may be so vain as to cite your own works

I am still thinking about my suggestions......

Dot

Dot wrote:
As this is the Composers' forum, you may be so vain as to cite your own works

Ah = but then folks would know who we are Dot May I cite someone else's works and pretend to be them? oooops - perhaps not

Ah = but then folks would know who we are Dot

No, they wouldn't. You just quote the work - who is to know that you are the composer? You don't have to claim responsibility for it!

Dot wrote:any other criteria you choose to mention

Hmmmmmm - perhaps something might be included about a song being capable of moving the folks who sing/listen to it being moved to prayer....and prayer appropriate for the liturgical moment (cf that bit in Sacrosanctum Concilium about the connection between music and rite).

The Holy Father's recent letter on the centenary of Pius X's call to active participation in the liturgy through song, makes the point that "naff" texts and music are unworthy of the liturgy but also equally unworthy is "high art" music when it becomes performance for performance's sake - or beauty for beauty's sake - and instead of engaging the listener in the liturgical rite, distracts from it by engaging people in the music.

Augustinian caveats apart, there's pages of Magisterial comments about what is and what is not appropriate regarding liturgical music from Pope John XXII - through the Council of Trent - to the present day. Let's consider at least some of those, especially that musical forms be married to their liturgical function.

What am I talking about? Well think of what, I imagine, most people might call a "good" song for the Communion Rite - This is my Body. It's a popular hymn. But is this strophic form best suited to the Communion procession? People don't carry their hymn books with them in that procession so, unless they know the words by heart, they don't sing. So how might the "goodness" of a song for the Communion procession be evaluated? What's the function of that particular song? What musical form might be appropriate?

Thanks, Presbyter.

Let's add that criterion to the list then: the ability of a song to move one to prayer.
It's too late for me to edit my first post - could some kind moderator or admin person add it to the list at the top of this thread please?

Come on everyone, where are your ideas?

I have a feeling that folk are wary of making suggestions because they fear that other users will come in and find fault with them. Even you, Presbyter, have not quoted an example which meets with your approval. What if we were to say "No criticism allowed of suggestions made"? Could that be added to the top post too?

I know this is going slightly off topic, but the top ten hymns thread has gone right off topic too. I think that a lot of the wariness and division over music within parishes derives from people not being able to agree on what is "good" music. There isn't an open discussion of what is "good", maybe because it would only lead to disagreement. Perhaps we should have that discussion anyway, and perhaps it should include interested members of the assembly who do not belong to a choir.

Dot

Right, I'm going to be brave and submit a couple of suggestions.

Good song no. 1: What does the Lord require? Music by Bill Tamblyn, words by Albert J Bayly, or is it Albert F Bayly, as quoted in CHforE?

My reasons: this song brings to life the words of the prophet Micah (Ch6: 6-8) in a wonderful way. The words have been skilfully put into verse whilst retaining the meaning of the text. They are powerful words set to powerful music. The words are firmly etched into my consciousness through the song.

Provisos on use? Yes: it's not a congregational song, it has to be inserted at a point where the assembly may listen.

Good song no.2: Stay Awake by Chris O'Hara.
This may be found in CHforE

Similar reasons as above: drawn from the words of Luke 21, used in Advent. Same proviso on use as above too, except you might get an enthusiastic assembly to sing it if you were to teach them it.

If you wish to criticise these suggestions, please do it gently.

Dot

PS 'scuse me, admin, but why does my "8" come out as an emoticon?

Dot wrote:b]What does the Lord require? [/b]Music by Bill Tamblyn, words by Albert J Bayly, or is it Albert F Bayly, as quoted in CHforE?

Music for this in CHFE is by Eric Routley Dot - is that the tune you are pointing us to or has Bill T done one too?

Never heard of Eric Routley Dot.
Yes, Bill's done another one, available via Decani (1998 vintage)

I thought I'd just reassure you that some of us are still thinking about this, Dot. It's funny because I thought there would be lots of songs that would fit the criteria but I really can't think of many.

I would agree with your choice of 'What Does the Lord Require' to Bill's tune. I might also include Bernadette Farrell's 'All That Is Hidden' and Marty Haugen's 'Bring Forth the Kingdom'. Both are scripture based and, for me, both convey the sense of the words by the music. 'Bring Forth the Kingdom', particularly, is a song that quickly engages the assembly and I'm sure folk find themselves joining in, in spite of themselves!

I'll keep thinking. There must be more.....

TT

(i) Ubi Caritas by Bob Hurd, from the collection of the same name (OCP).

There's a good simple singable refrain ('Ubi caritas est vera, Deus ibi est') which meets the 'hands free' criterion for an effective Communion processional song. The text of the verses is fairly faithful to the Latin original, but expands on it a little in a creative way. The music has a wistful character to it, which is what makes it work for me - the last verse has 'May we one day behold your glory, and see you face to face', and this is the musical climax. Followed by the more subdued and reflective final refrain it points up nicely the "through a glass darkly" nature of our sacramental encounters in this life.

For assembly, cantor(s) (and/or SATB) and organ. Try it!

(ii) We Come to Your Feast by Michael Joncas, from the collection of the same name! (GIA)

A good song for the preparation of the gifts. Another good simple singable refrain (ending '...with the fruit of our lands and the work of our hands, we come to your feast'.) and verses which give a good account of what's happening in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Theologically quite rich - the last verse has '...in blessing we'll uncover, in sharing we'll discover, your substance and your sign.'

For piano, guitar, wind instruments, assembly, cantor(s), SATB.

M.

This is so interesting, and makes me go back and review the way we use pieces. We have used Bob Hurd's Ubi Caritas as a favoured setting of that text ever since being introduced to it in preparation for the big Millennium Mass at the NEC. Funnily enough, although I like it, the words have not impinged on me through that setting. This may be because I play it rather than sing it. However, it'll make me for one think harder about how we present it next time.

As for the Joncas piece, I am hoping to introduce it to our music group tomorrow night, and I don't know what to make of it. I shall mention your recommendation - it couldn't have been better timed!

Thank-you, mcb.

Dot

Struck me on Sunday, having listened to Psalm 103 and singing Praise, my soul, the King of Heaven, that it's a pretty good song. Words not too dated, well-written accompaniment, dignified and singable. (Our Sunday congregation sang it, and that's quite something - they're not the most willing!)

Actually, it does have a flaw: look what happens to the meaning of the first line if you change the punctuation.......

Dot wrote:any other criteria you choose to mention

Are songs that stick in the memory necessarily good? Most Catholics over 50, I should think, would be able to sing Soul of my saviour without the need for a book. What might be a more recent example, the Owens/Lundy This is my body...? Is popular always good? Discuss!

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ubi mel, ibi apes

mind you - if popular (in some circles) = good, then - picking up a thread from Dot elsewhere - that would make the Israeli Mass good - hmmmmmmmmm


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bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis

Are songs that stick in the memory necessarily good?

Shall we dismiss this criterion then?