Only 20 hymns

[oopsorganist]

OK here is my list for a limited core repertoire.

All People That on Earth Do Dwell
Praise to the Holiest in the Heights.
Gifts of Bread and Wine
In Bread we Bring You Lord
All That I Am (how I hate this ditty)
Holy Holy Holy, Lord God Almighty
Amazing Grace
Blessed are you Lord God of all creation
Dear Lord and Father of Mankind
Lord of all Hopefulness
Be Thou My Vision
God is Love His the Care
God's Spirit is in my Heart
Seek Ye First
I the Lord of Sea and Sky
Do not be Afraid
Walk with me
Take Our Bread We Ask You
Come Lord Jesus COme
Living Lord
I will be with you

One of these has to go as I think I have put 21 in my list. They are not my favourite hymns though. I have left out One Bread One Body and Christ be our Light. But they seem to be being sung except for HOly HOly HOly and Praise to the Holiest and All People that on Earth etc - have not heard these in a good while but they seem to ought to be there.

[Southern Comfort]

Here's a different list of 20 hymns. These are by no means hymns that are in everybody's repertoire, but hymns which I think it would be good for everyone to know. Thanks for a thought-provoking exercise, oops!

All my hope on God is founded (Michael)
As the deer longs for running streams (Hurd)
Dear Lord and Father of mankind (Repton)
Forth in the peace of Christ (Angels’ Song)
Gather us in (Haugen)
Let all mortal flesh keep silence (Picardy)
Lift high the cross (Crucifer)
Lord, you give the great commission (Abbot's Leigh)
Lord, your love has drawn us near (Dean)
My song is love unknown (Love Unknown)
O Lord, hear my prayer (Taizé)
On eagles’ wings (Joncas)
Praise to the holiest (Billing)
Sing of the Lord’s goodness (Sands)
Soul of my Saviour (Anima Christi)
Tell out my soul (Woodlands)
The kingdom of God is justice and joy (Hanover)
Veni, Sancte Spiritus (Walker)
We have a gospel to proclaim (Fulda)
Will you come and follow me (Iona)

[oopsorganist]

Like them

Coming to your church.

[alan29]

Quite organy. We aren't at all ..... not got one.
Parishes with few musicians are more likely to find a guitarist than an organist, maybe?

[Hare]

The more I read about dwindling resources and dumbing down, I am finding myself thinking - why not make the said mass (and I mean no hymns either!) the norm and just let those who have the resources, do the job properly where they can! That's all.

[oopsorganist]

Maybe

When there are few resources and things are hard, people resort to hymns instead of Acclamations. And then sing dull hymns badly. People are loath to give up trying and there is always someone who thinks they can lead "All that I am. So "All That I Am" replaces the Gloria. And then everyone gets embarrassed and shuffles off.

?

[alan29]

The more I read about dwindling resources and dumbing down, I am finding myself thinking - why not make the said mass (and I mean no hymns either!) the norm and just let those who have the resources, do the job properly where they can! That's all.

Having limited resources doesn't mean dumbing down. Neither does using instruments other than the organ. Nor does using post Vat 2 materials.

[Hare]

We use all Post-Vatican II material apart from a couple of plainchant masses occasionally, and Credo III

[oopsorganist]

I also want to be with Alan's church. That sounds perfect for me.

There might be a case that lack of resources can be the thing that drives resourcefulness and that idea of simplicity. Feed the congregation not the Arts.

[oopsorganist]

I notice that my list of 20 hymns contains lots of me /I hymns. Hymns of despair in hard pressed communities. All that walking with me, and do not be afraid stuff. Not too much we stuff.
Whist SC tends more to the glory of God and grandeur.

[Hare]

Feeding the congregation - There's fine dining, and there's Junk Food.

[oopsorganist]

Fine dining?
Round here, chips and beans are a perfectly acceptable evening meal. The Co Op has closed (again) which was the only place you could get Fair Trade goods locally and we have more Polish shops and loan shops and tasty take aways - no green grocers - and a marvelous Pay as You Like Cafe which uses out of sell- by date food. It's called The Real Junk Food Cafe.
And food banks. And so on. It is very colourful. Last week there was a Festival and the shopping street was closed to traffic ..... the bookies provided a Caribbean food stall.

So that is why "Sometimes the road is long, my energy is spent" resonates with people. Not that people are hungry just lacking in nutrients, overweight, unhealthy, and full of E numbers.

I digress. But feeding people might be meeting their needs where they are at. There is just something about needing a takeaway curry and chips when life is tough.

[gwyn]

My God, how wonderful Thou art (Faber)
Ride on! Ride on in majesty
Lord, enthroned in heavenly splendour
All that I counted as gain (Michael Joncas)
All creatures of our God and King
I’ll sing a hymn to Mary (proper version)
Pange lingua gloriosi / Of the glorious body telling
Ubi Caritas (Bob Hurd)
Bright the vision that delighted (Round the Lord in glory seated)
All my hope on God is founded (Bryn Myrddyn)
Alleluia! Sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
Jesus Christ is ris’n today
There’s a wideness in God’s mercy (In Memoriam)
Let all the world in every corner sing (to the tune in the appendix of the English Hymnal)
Holy God, we praise thy name
Cherubic hymn (any Ukrainian version)
For all the saints (Sine Nomine)
Hark! A herald voice is calling
I, the Lord of sea and sky
Glory to Thee, my God, this night

I suppose though, if an assembly could manage these, there'd be no need to set a limit of twenty. Just a thought.

[oopsorganist]

Yikes. There are 7 there that I don't know and a further 2 I have never sung in church although I know them from somewhere.

The rules of the game are that if the repertoire is limited then the congregation will know them and will internalize them so therefore when the music leadership is absent there will be not sneaky putting up of thine favourite hymns what you think the parish ought to be singing, causing mayhem, bad feeling and general loss of confidence. It's an agreed repertoire that covers all occasions but not special holidays. But could be used then

The parish needs this repertoire so that they can thoroughly internalize the material and develop confidence and skills. To facilitate this the first two musical pieces - Entrance and Gloria - must be played 2 tones below what is written. To let voices warm up of course. And for me to be able to sing.

So I am not sure if material for Christmas and Easter needs to be included in the basic set. Probably not. That gives Gwyn a couple more to choose.

[nazard]

There is a very basic point missing here. I fully support the idea that if a congregation isn't singing then it is an excellent idea to cut the repertoire down to just a few, probably less than the suggested twenty, and repeat it ad nauseam until they pick them up and are happy to join in. However, if there is no-one who can teach them the tunes, it is very unlikely that they will ever learn. The idea of having music at every mass which the council recommended has gone about as well as any major project without a plan, a responsible manager and a budget ever goes. In short, it has been a complete disaster. To get a parish singing you need a handful of "seed" singers who can adequately bash their way through the music the congregation is to learn. If you haven't got even this basic resource, the church has nothing to help you.

I would like to suggest that every diocese provides three resources:

1) A group of singers with serviceable voices, no enormously special skills required, who can go to mass every Sunday for a few months at parishes where people are not singing.

2) A tuition programme to teach singers and instrumentalists to a standard that would enable them to participate in congregational music and guide it to an appropriate level.

3) A vetting service where a well trained musician from the diocese attends mass on a sample basis around the diocese so that tone deaf parish priests can be told when they have a musician trying to lead the music who is just not up to it.

Our parish had tone deaf priests for about fifty years. We eventually aquired a "music" leader singer/guitarist who was unbelievably dreadful. He managed to halve the congregation in less than ten years, while being encouraged by a parish priest who felt that he was modernising the parish. In the five years since our guitarist left numbers have increased somewhat and singing has resumed, tentatively at first, but resoundingly now. It was very frustrating to watch a priest obviously completely out of his depth. It is considered very bad practice in all professions I know to leave a junior to cope with a problem which is beyond him. I think this should apply to Bishops as much as doctors, engineers and airline pilots.