Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

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AntoineDaniel
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Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by AntoineDaniel »

Friends,

I thought you might enjoy these essays, which (perhaps) will lead to conversation & dialogue:

WHAT ARE THE MASS PROPERS?
http://www.ccwatershed.org/Mass_Propers_Defined/

CATHOLIC HYMNS (PART 1)
http://www.ccwatershed.org/hymns/part_1/

CATHOLIC HYMNS (PART 2)
http://www.ccwatershed.org/hymns/part_2/

ANTIPHONS IN THE MISSAL & GRADUAL
http://www.ccwatershed.org/Roman_Missal/
St. Antoine Daniel, pray for us!
Southern Comfort
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by Southern Comfort »

AntoineDaniel wrote:WHAT ARE THE MASS PROPERS?
http://www.ccwatershed.org/Mass_Propers_Defined/


Here we read

3. ALLELUIA VERSE • After Vatican II, it is allowed to REPLACE the traditional Gregorian Alleluia Verse with the “Gospel Acclamation.” Sometimes, these two are identical, but not usually. For this reason, the Vatican II Hymnal includes both the Gregorian Alleluia Verse and the Gospel Acclamation. “The Alleluia or verse before the Gospel may be omitted if they are not sung” (GIRM, 63).


The quote from GIRM 63 only relates to masses where there is just one reading and a Gospel reading, not a Sunday situation. This ought to be clarified, particularly as the original 1969 GIRM did say that the Alleluia or verse before the Gospel could be omitted if not sung at any time, and anyone reading this might remember that and be misled.
AntoineDaniel
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by AntoineDaniel »

Thank you. I have made the change, and am grateful for your expertise.
St. Antoine Daniel, pray for us!
dmu3tem
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by dmu3tem »

I think all this sort of stuff, however worthy in itself, evades the central point. Do hymns 'work' in a service such as one might find in a modern suburban parish in present day England? By 'work' I mean 'provide a meaningful religious experience/form of communication with God. A liturgy may be prefectly 'authentic' from a historical standpoint; it may bear a close resemblence to the 'services' conducted by Christians in the earliest days of a thing called 'the church'; but at the end of the day, if that liturgy does not meet the present day needs and means of communication of modern people in a given society then it is useless.

The key text for me is something along the lines of 'when two or three people are gathered together in my name, there I (Christ) will be among you'. This is a mandate for a liturgy that meets people's present needs now. I find it difficult to believe that Christ, if he came amongst us now, would not use the forms of communication that resonate with people's mindset.

Here are some practical points that strike me:

[1] By 'hymn' the 'person in the street' means something with a metrical or semi-metrical text that is either set to diatonic melodies using 'old-fashioned' four-part harmony or popular 'folk' style melodies with more flowing accompaniments such as 'Do not be afraid'. The 'person in the street' is unlikely to think in terms of a Latin plainchant hymn; nor do people bother very much about whether the hymn is in a verse-chorus form or not.

[2] Since Vatican II hymns of these two types have been the principal device by which English Catholic congregations have been persuaded to sing. If they are abandoned now forty years effort and development will be thrown aside.

[3] While it is important that hymn texts correspond to the given liturgical theme of a particular Sunday, it is equally clear that the injection of a hymn repertoire into the collective consciousness depends on repetition. A liturgical system where the texts (and therefore the music) are changed every week does not meet this criteria and makes it very difficult to develop a congregational singing tradition with any vitality. This is a major problem with for the current policy of substituting Proper antiphons for hymns. It may be 'liturgically correct' in a historical-purist sense, but it does not meet practical need on the ground.

The solution advocated is to have a number of 'common' Propers so that there is some sort of chance that some musical material sinks into the collective consciousness. The success of failure of this enterprise depends on the ability of modern day composers to come up with compelling music that bears comparison with the 'greatest' (or at any rate 'most catchy') hymn tunes known today. Given that the current hymn repertoire is the product of centuries, I think this is a pretty tall order; and I cannot see many congregations taking to singing large amounts of plainchant with any gusto, however beautiful it may be.

[4] Proper texts are usually not metrical. Given the hymn-orientation of the congregational singing mindset this is a major disqualification.

[5] Another key factor is that a hymn usually consists of verses of the same length and structure; which means that once a congregation has learnt the first verse it can sing all the others. The Proper settings are of two types: either, they have a verse-single-line response structure or just a single verse. With the former there is a reasonable chance that a congregation will master this quickly leaving the cantor/choir to deliver the verses. This though depends on there being a number of verses, so that the response can be repeated several times. If there is just a verse, then its chances of succesfully picking up the material are much slimmer.

To sum up, I suspect that the liturgical authorities -with the best will in the world - are 'swimming against the tide'. I am sure Catholic musicians will do their best to make the new patterns work; but it is very doubtful whether they will succeed in maintaining a congregational singing tradition of any vitality if they remove hymns in the sense defined above.
T.E.Muir
NorthernTenor
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by NorthernTenor »

I believe the problem with that argument, Thomas, is that the tail wags the dog. It turns the means of participation into an end in itself, and in doing so goes against the grain of what the liturgy is: the received means by which the faith is transmitted from generation to generation. Its complex web of elements connects us with the great collective act of worship down the ages, and the thinking about God which it expresses and informs. To the extent that we place our own judgement over it, so we distance ourselves from that unity.

In a previous age, the fathers of the liturgical movement sought to address another cause of disconnection from this great inheritance, by encouraging the laity to engage with the liturgy (the society that sponsors this board was founded to that end). They did not seek to re-make it, or arbitrarily replace parts of it at the whim of local clergy and musicians.
Ian Williams
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VML
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by VML »

Thank you dmu3tem for such a full and balanced response.
However much the ideal is to have most of the Mass sung, including daily and weekly variations, the people have a pastoral need for a good sing. There have been efforts to adapt, translate and shove parts of the liturgy into singable tunes. Some of the results are truly dire: e.g a certain hymn book edition that attempted to have a well known tune for every week, with the Mass of the day shoehorned in extremely uncomfortably by a single text writer.
I feel sure that down the ages, there have been hymns, prayers and anthems that have been of their time, and are long forgotten. The ones that survive are the strong ones, the beautiful memorable tunes with dignified words. Where some have been vandalised in a silly attempt at inclusivity or modernity, the result is a bit like what a certain artist famous for pickling cows might do to a Michaelangelo statue. Look at the current Good Friday thread here.
There are a few hymns of the last 50 years that will survive, and we could do with a modern Hopkins or Chesterton, poets with faith who knew their craft.

The beautiful books that accompany this link look beyond the reach of any parish I know, and I cannot see that the level of use could justify the purchase in most English parishes.
alan29
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by alan29 »

Surely the Mass is principally and over-ridingly (?) the means by which we worship the Father through Christ. Matters of preserving traditions and styles of worship have to be judged in that light.
For me one of the glories of the last 50 odd years has been the opening up to Catholics of our own cultural/national tradition of hymn singing. It has enabled me to sing Gods praises using truly inspired texts and music.
Another glory has been the growth of scripture based songs which have enabled congregations to sing the word of God.
Are we really to throw those out in favour of ...... charity forbids.
Thank you Thomas for your post.
NorthernTenor
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by NorthernTenor »

alan29 wrote:Another glory has been the growth of scripture based songs which have enabled congregations to sing the word of God.

The Propers are mostly scripture.

alan29 wrote:Are we really to throw those out in favour of ......


The Mass?
Ian Williams
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alan29
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by alan29 »

Made me chuckle Ian.
NorthernTenor
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Re: Replacing Mass Propers with Hymns at Mass

Post by NorthernTenor »

Sorry about the quote mark-up, Alan - comes of making comments from the train towards the end of a long day (over a quarter bottle of St. Michael's best Chilean Sauvignon Blanc).
Ian Williams
Alium Music
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