So where are we now

[Hare]

Apologies for starting yet another topic, but with several other topics running on various aspects of the new translation, what I would like to know is, in one place rather than having to sift through several topics, simply

Where are we now?

[Nick Baty]

As I understand it, we're preparing for the launch the new translation of The Order of Mass in September (although not all of the celebrant's texts will change just yet) in preparation for the complete Missal in Advent.

The three month gap is to be used for catechesis for which materials are currently in preparation.

Publishers are currently submitting settings of the new texts to the Liturgy Office for approval with a view to publishing them six months ahead (ie March).

Nagging feeling I've missed something out!

[alan29]

When do we have to ditch all our responsorial psalms?

[docmattc]

When do we have to ditch all our responsorial psalms?

Not yet. Should have those for another 3 years

[Nick Baty]

And do we have to ditch them at all?
To which, I suspect, the answer is "no".

Rather like: Do responsorial psalms have to have a response?
To which the answer is a definite "no".

[VML]

..because the psalm itself is the response to the reading. .. I think.

[Nick Baty]

VML is a woman of great knowledge and discernment.
And she has excellent taste in responsorial psalms!

[musicus]

..because the psalm itself is the response to the reading. .. I think.

And also because it is in a responsorial form! (Both explanations seem to be equally true and applicable.) We have discussed this before, but I can't find it now.

But we are OT now.

[Nick Baty]

Not necessarily.

GIRM par 61 says: "The entire congregation remains seated and listens but, as a rule, takes part by singing the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through without a response."

And CTM par 162 says: "In the direct form...the cantor, or the whole assembly together, sings the verses consecutively".

I tend to use:
• cantor/people (mostly)
• just assembly (occasionally)
• cantor/choir (rarely)

My only gripe with some psalm settings is that the assembly is thrown a small bone, often too small to scratch around for (sorry, think I'm mixing metaphors, counting my dogs before the chickens have hatched).

I believe in giving the assembly a response which is meaty, something they can get their teeth into, even if it means their response is as long as the cantor's verses.

[HallamPhil]

Quite so Prof Baty. This is one of a few of those instances where Rome allows for alternatives yet our experience is impoverished by those who make the choices or seem unaware of the choice!

[Nick Baty]

Thank you, Doc Phil. My preference is for cantor/assembly but there are other options.

Now, in the light of LA – and the forthcoming new Lectionary – where might we be with using refrains other than those in the book. And, let's be honest, some of those in the book are more than a tad naff.

If other forms of psalmody are allowed – as cited above – then they will, by definition, ignore the given refrains.
Someone out there must know!

If me syntax is muddled it's because I'm drinking Piccini. Only comes in a 50cl bottle but it was on offer in Tesco so I bought lots of bottles. As Belloc said, "Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there's always laughter and good red wine...."

[alan29]

I was thinking more about new translations making old settings "illegal." I guess a fair few of us have spent many an hour composing Resp Psalms ...... bin them or re-cast them in Yoda?

[Nick Baty]

Many of the Revised Grail Psalms are almost identical.

On the other hand some phrases have been completely recast into different rhythms. Good Friday's "I am like a dead man, forgotten in men's hearts" is now "I am forgotten, like someone dead" which doesn't have quite the same impact.

And there are some phrases which are just ugly: "In the Lord's own house shall I dwell for ever and ever" has become "In the Lord's own house shall I dwell for length of days unending." Wish I hadn't checked that example as it's likely to haunt me all day as I try work it out!

Anyway, there's a nice simple site to flick through here where you can easily look up any psalm or specific liturgy.

Does anyone know if the responses given by GIA are to be international or are they just for the US? And how have they managed to produce (2 Advent A) a verse which reads "In his days shall justice flourish, and great peace till the moon is no more" followed by a refrain which mangles it to "Justice shall flourish in his time, and fullness of peace forever"?

[VML]

Do we ever find out who 'they' who mangle actually are?

[Nick Baty]

In the case of the psalms we know it's the Monks of Conception Abbey under the same instruction from Liturgiam Authenticam which led to the new translation of the Roman Missal.

From GIA's website:

In the wake of the 2001 document Liturgiam authenticam, all contemporary translations of the psalms came under criticism for their use of paraphrase—LA having called for more literal translations of the Scriptures and liturgical texts.

This criticism affected the Grail Psalms, original and revised; the psalms, both original and revised, from the New American Bible; and the ICEL Psalter, among others.

Benedictine monk and priest, musician, and Old Testament professor Abbot Gregory Polan, O.S.B., of Conception Abbey, Missouri, responding to a request of the then–Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy and with an eye to its use for his own monastic community, undertook the work of preparing a third revision of the Grail Psalms.

For this task, Abbot Gregory worked exclusively from the original Grail version and the Hebrew Massoretic and Greek Septuagint texts, with an eye to the Nova Vulgata. During the process, he conferred with the Grail, as well as Vatican and international sources, in order to create a version that would meet the requirements of Liturgiam authenticam and be suitable for English speakers throughout the world.