Alternative texts for Mass.

[VML]

It is encouraging to see on other topics here that so many composers are putting time and thought into producing settings of the coming new text of the Mass.
This should ensure that we are not lumbered with numerous padded, altered and versified versions of the Mass parts usually sung, as we were in the seventies.

This Sunday, I have been informed, something called the 'live simply creed' will replace the Nicene Creed at Mass for Peace Sunday. The intention is to have something 'meaningful in the context of that particular Mass.' This is from an RE teacher so she must be right. (Sorry, there is not a smilie for being catty!)
It's my Sunday off music, but I have suggested that we are not really at liberty to substitute the words of the Creed, except in particular circumstances, when the Apostles' Creed or Renewal of Baptismal Vows is used.
This is taken as just my opinion, so I thought we might find a few other creeds to use at themed Masses...
Education, prisoners, seafarers, pro-life, day for the sick, harvest, family fast days; there must be more.

[Nick Baty]

Has to be the Creed from the Bernstein Mass:
I believe in one God,
But then I believe in three.
I’ll believe in twenty gods
If they’ll believe in me.

[VML]

Thanks Nick.

[JW]

Hopefully, it will be made clear at training courses on the new translations, that 'creative' adaptations are not allowed. Or are they? English bishops, clergy, and schools advisors will have be very clear about what is and what is not permitted if we are not to continue in our former ways.

I notice that settings such as the 'Israeli' Mass and the 'Peruvian' Gloria still appear in the 2008 edition of Catholic HON, so it is presumed they must be OK. (By the way, they've altered the Grail psalms to use inclusive language, while this is laudable IMHO is it permitted? I assume Copyright permission was given.)

The English Church has been a little remiss in laying down the law in the past 40 years or so - which is why we're where we're at; perhaps this is a good thing. Of course, there's always the chance they'll be ignored anyway. Is there really a will to tie the Mass down to a rigid unchangeable ritual in the Tridentine style.?

To think of the fuss there was when the Western Latin Church added a single word to the Creed 'Filioque'!

As you might guess, I've never been quite sure where I stand on this issue

[docmattc]

Hopefully, it will be made clear at training courses on the new translations, that 'creative' adaptations are not allowed. Or are they? English bishops, clergy, and schools advisors will have be very clear about what is and what is not permitted if we are not to continue in our former ways.

It doesn't matter how clear its made at training courses. Those who are most 'creative' won't bother attending, or if they do, will know better anyway.

[alan29]

I think tjhe translators have rather shot themselves in the foot by providing texts that are so very unhelpful. Its a bit rich to expect composers to set Yoda-speak in a way that congregations will find catchy and memorable. I fear that the strict application of the requirement for straight text alone will lead to more congregations being reduced to saying the Gloria for example.

[presbyter]

I fear that the strict application of the requirement for straight text alone will lead to more congregations being reduced to saying the Gloria for example.

I strongly disagree. Yet the challenge for composers is to set the text so that people can indeed sing it. Why not go to the Seminar for Composers? The Wirral is not far from Salford.

[Nick Baty]

The Wirral is not far from Salford.

Neither is Wirral

[alan29]

Thanks for the suggestion Presbyter. Nick, you are a very cheeky boy!
thinks ........ I quite like composing things for the liturgy, but if we all shoot off and do our own thing, what happens at diocesan "dos?"

[Nick Baty]

Well, I managed to persuade one or two Times editors to drop the definite article before Wirral!

Alan, at diocesan "dos" we will eventually sing that which, through trial and error, becomes well-known and which proves worth singing. And, as last time, it will probably take quite some time for a common repertoire to emerge.

[docmattc]

Alan, at diocesan "dos" we will eventually sing that which, through trial and error, becomes well-known and which proves worth singing. And, as last time, it will probably take quite some time for a common repertoire to emerge.

At the risk of going off topic (and having to moderate myself), after 40 years I don't think a common repertoire has yet emerged. In another 40 years the chances are we'll be getting a new translation again, so that's too long a timespan to let a repertoire emerge anyway.

I raised the same question as Alan29 here

[Nick Baty]

That's a fair point, Matt. But there are plenty of settings which are fairly widespread use – Celtic Liturgy and Gathering Mass, for example. I pull out the former for larger events, clergy funerals etc and usually get a good response.

Anyway, we start singing the new Holy and Acclamation 3 in two weeks time (yes, I know, very naughty). We can't stick with the seven settings we have much longer and it seems daft to start a new version of the present translation right now. A second set of accs is scheduled for Advent and the third for Lent 2012. Thereafter, we'll add a set a year until we've got back to where we are now.

[presbyter]

Anyway, we start singing the new Holy and Acclamation 3 in two weeks time (yes, I know, very naughty)........

Given that settings of the new texts might possibly require a concordat and imprimatur and that perhaps that ICEL won't grant copyright permission without this ecclesial authority being granted, how are you going to do that? No settings are published yet - no permission to use the new texts has been given yet - and even those settings produced for the Papal Visit had ecclesial authority only for that event. Are you using your own compositions?

[alan29]

Are the UK texts actually out there in their very-most-finalest form? I am under the impression that they are still a work in progress. like others I have been fiddling with them, trying to make musical sense of the Gloria. But without too much effort in case they change again.

[Nick Baty]

perhaps that ICEL won't grant copyright permission without this ecclesial authority being granted, how are you going to do that?

ICEL is does not expect to give clearance for texts “when the appear in materials produced by individual parishes, schools or religious houses”.

Anyway, we are actually using the 1965 translation which, I believe, has never been abrogated, with a slight twiddle to words 12 and 13. If we’re wrong, and this text has been abrogated, then we’re using the 1973 translation with a slight twiddle to words 7, 8 and 9.

If any one get snotty about the rules, we’ll presume we were dobbed in by our neighbours at St Cilla’s, Up-the-Street. And we will make full and forceful complaint about them singing Israeli Mass too slowly!

No settings are published yet

True.
Apart from these: http://www.wlp.jspaluch.com/11355.htm
And these: http://www.ocp.org/newmasssettings/newsettings
Although the second lot are still in production.
And these: http://www.giamusic.com/sacred_music/ne ... ttings.cfm
Although only half of the last lot are currently available.

Are the UK texts actually out there in their very-most-finalest form? I am under the impression that they are still a work in progress.

They're actually rather further down the production line than we're allowed to know. But, of course, I'm not allowed to know that.

It's at times like this I wish I was at at St Kylie’s, Down-the-Road. There I could sing what a like!