Copyright Permission

[Nick Baty]

Sounds to me as though everyone is jumping the gun and making a lot of presumptions.

As far as the ICEL texts are concerned, I believe that composers/publishers will have to apply to some sort of national music committee who will issue approvals, not based on musical considerations but on fidelity to the text. Can someone confirm this, please. Don't remember where I got it from but I'm sure Martin Foster will be able to fill us in if he's reading this. Am I on the right track, Martin?

Same with the psalms – everyone's casting GIA as the big bad wolf with little to support the argument. They are the administrators of the new translation. How many of us does that affect? Certainly not composers who are free to produce their compositions for use within their communities. And if you're branching into commercial publishing through which – by definition – you stand to make a profit, why shouldn't you pay all the other worker bees who have contributed to that?

I'm happy to be corrected when the new Grail texts are available – but, in the meantime, aren't we all over-reacting?

[quaeritor]

I'm amazed how long ago this topic was current!

Good copyright news for a change - our choir decided it would be a good idea to make a cd to raise our profile in the parish and money for the building fund. We enthusiastically spent some summer evenings "laying down some tracks" (as I believe one should say) and then lost impetus with the onset of holidays. Suddenly we found ourselves within a couple of weeks of the annual Christmas Bazaar - the principal and probably only occasion on which we might presume on poeple's generosity and actually make some money for the cause.

With a sinking heart I realised that the bulk of the chosen items are settings by me of Grail and ICEL texts - previously used only for "acts of worship" within the parish but now, I guessed, about to attract copyright liability. We tried approaching the MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) - part of the PRS, I believe - for a Limited Manufacture Licence, which looked like a simple solution, but they advised that such use of "the lyrics" did not fall within their remit..

So, I emailed ICEL direct and AP Watt Ltd, agents for The Grail. With remarkably few hoops to jump through, both organisations managed to come up with the necessary permission in time, and both did so without making any charge.

So, many thanks to both of them for their help.

Q

[Southern Comfort]

AP Watt Ltd, agents for The Grail.

You do realise that AP Watt have not been agents for the Grail for a number of years? HarperCollins are the people you should contact now. (Until the new Grail psalter comes in.)

[musicus]

Ouch!

[quaeritor]

SC - if you Google "A P Watt" the first response is (I'm not sure how this will reproduce visually, but here goes . . . )

AP WATT
HarperCollins Publishers 77-85 Fulham Palace Road London, W6 8JB ... If you have any doubts, please check with A P Watt to see if permission is required. ...
http://www.apwatt.co.uk/frame.asp?left= ... .asp...asp - Cached - Similar

As usual, the Google listing has disconnected phrases showing how the link matches the search, so it just could be an extract from text reading "we wish to advise you that HarperCollins has nothing whatsoever to do with . . A P Watt.. ". . etc
- but do I need to entertain such possibilities? - I mentioned in my correspondence with A P Watt that I did not understand their connection with HC - they did not say "We no longer act for the Grail" - what more can I do?

- but thanks for your concern.

Q

[Southern Comfort]

what more can I do?

If I were you, I'd proceed in accordance with this page: http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/business-centre/Permissions/Pages/Permissions.aspx

Also a note about ICEL. I don't know which texts you're recording, but I assume you know that some of the Mass texts are not ICEL copyright and don't need permission?

The Gloria, Apostles' and Nicene Creed, Sanctus and the Lamb of God text noted below are all ICET, not ICEL. ICET makes its texts available for use free of charge, without permission having to be requested. All they ask is that a copyright acknowledgement be printed.

All the above applies mutatis mutandis to sound recordings too.

The acclamation "Christ has died" is in the public domain, though ICEL has in the past tried to claim it as theirs. It was being used by the Anglicans years before ICEL produced it, and no one knows who originally wrote it.

Another text that ICEL tried to pinch was the Ubi Caritas. They took the English Bishops' text (1966, if I remember rightly), changed one word, and then put their own copyright on it. Hmmmm.

The traditional text of the Our Father is in the public domain. (The modern language version is ICET again.)

The ICET Lamb of God text is:

Jesus, Lamb of God: have mercy on us.
Jesus, bearer of our sin: have mercy on us.
Jesus, redeemer of the world: give us your peace.

[dmu3tem]

I recently asked Harper Collins for copyright to use a psalm setting I am planning for a CD I am making next year. I simply went to the copyright permissions section of their website, downloaded their form, carefully completed it and sent it back to the relevant e.mail address. The instructions asked you to allow for 4 weeks. In the event it took about 6 weeks but otherwise there was no problem. I think the key thing is to provide the fullest possible details, give them plently of time to respond, and NOT hound them with reminder messages when you think they are not responding quickly enough for your liking.
Mind you I am only planning to make 300 copies (above that I believe difficulties start to arise - this is true of ICEL as well) and use only one psalm text. I wrote out the full text as it appears in the Lectionary and gave the precise detailed reference both to that (in my edition of the Missal) and to where it appears in their Grail Edition of Psalms. I was also planning to stick to the exact wording of the text as it is given in the Lectionary. I believe they make difficulties if you depart from this. However this is true with other publishers (including ICEL) and anyway runs foul of liturgical purists who place a strict interpretation on 'Liturgiam Authenticam'.