Unaccompanied Sung Liturgy

[Hare]

So Hare, what exactly are you saying?

A congregation should have the music in front of them and know enough to count 4 bars
or
that they should not be trusted with singing anything unaccompanied?

I suppose I am querying the wisdom of programming something to be sung unaccompanied that has a written accompaniment.

I am also surprised that there was no organist available at such a prestigious place.

[SOP]

we sang everything unaccompanied as neither organist were there. Don't know if that was deliberate but that is the way it was.

It could be when the Mass setting was chosen that nobody knew there would not be an organist around. We all sang straight through to the Blessed and I remember thinking it worked quite well. It is a setting we use anyway so they also know how it goes when accompanied.

As to

prestigious place

I say that first and foremost it is a church, a parish church with regulars who are used to standing back on big occasions and even waiting on the visitors but for the vast majority of the time it is our church. On that Sunday, that was us singing, there were a few visitors, as always, but it was us singing what we knew and enjoying it.

This Sunday just gone, we had the second organist playing the same Mass setting and he always messes up that four bar section so I and my friend made sure we counted the 4 bars and then we came back in with the Blessed and others followed.

I wish we could have more unaccompanied Masses and will say so when we get back into the swing of things. I would go further and say every now and then we should sing without the notes!!! Actually learn a piece and sing it without any heads being buried in the copies.

[Gabriel]

Hare, I think you may be confusing not having an accompaniment with not having any musical leadership.
If we have Gathering Mass unaccompanied the 4 bars are omitted and the choir give leadership. In a similar way our usual practice for the Gospel Acclamation is organ/piano introduction then all sing Alleluia. If there is no accompaniment the cantor sings Alleluia first and then all repeat.

[Hare]

Hare, I think you may be confusing not having an accompaniment with not having any musical leadership.
If we have Gathering Mass unaccompanied the 4 bars are omitted and the choir give leadership. In a similar way our usual practice for the Gospel Acclamation is organ/piano introduction then all sing Alleluia. If there is no accompaniment the cantor sings Alleluia first and then all repeat.

No, I don't think I am.

I suppose I am spoilt in that in my parish, I always find an organist for every weekend mass if I am not there to play myself, and if I can't get anyone, I don't go away.

Your 2nd point merely reinforces my 1st point about doing things differently and leading to confusion. It may work for you, but it would not work here.

I also thought that the Alleluia was supposed to be intoned first, even if there is an accompaniment....?

[Nick Baty]

I also thought that the Alleluia was supposed to be intoned first, even if there is an accompaniment....?

Does that depend on the timing of the Gospel procession?

[monty]

I always find an organist for every weekend mass if I am not there to play myself, and if I can't get anyone, I don't go away

Mmmm, sounds as if you are afraid to let your congregation sing unaccompanied as they might just prefer it!

[gwyn]

It's a peculiar thread development is this. We seem to have attached ourselves to the principle that singing unaccompanied is a second best alternative when there's no organist or skiffle group available. I'm no expert, but surely our sung liturgies might contain a number of musical items some of which work nicely when accompanied, others unaccompanied? At least that's my take on it.

It's up there for knocking down folks. Off you go.

[John Ainslie]

I quite agree, Gwyn. Indeed, a balance of unaccompanied singing, accompanied singing and non-vocal instrumental music might, resources permitting, be a consideration in planning, especially for a major festival celebration.

[Nick Baty]

We sing quite a bit unaccompanied: Haugen's I will walk in the presence of God and Bring Forth the Kingdom, for example. A skiffle group, Gwyn? Where on earth can you find a washboard and tea-chest in 2009?

[Gabriel]

I also thought that the Alleluia was supposed to be intoned first, even if there is an accompaniment....?

Does that depend on the timing of the Gospel procession?

GIRM (62) actually states that It is sung by all while standing and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated if this is appropriate.

I understand this to mean that repetition is optional. But I also don't want to treat the congregation as 'idiots'. If we are using, say, the Celtic Alleluia I would hope the congregation know the tune by now - and if some don't it will be the example of the whole congregation which teaches. I realise I am working out of an understanding that the use 'cantor repeated by all' is fundamentally a teaching mode and not an 'exercise of ministerial function' - that's the only alternative model I could think of not that I can justify it from the documents.

In a similar way I would not use responsorial Masses with a regular congregation - though this may change with the introduction of new texts again.

This may seem OTT but singing unaccompanied can be very effective in helping the congregation see that they have a vital/central role in the music in the liturgy.

To further what others have said the primary instrument in the liturgy is the voice and the primary musicians are the congregation.

[Nick Baty]

the primary musicians are the congregation.

This should be writ large in every choir stall and vestry in the land.

[Hare]

I always find an organist for every weekend mass if I am not there to play myself, and if I can't get anyone, I don't go away

Mmmm, sounds as if you are afraid to let your congregation sing unaccompanied as they might just prefer it!

No.

I have written some unaccompanied cantor-led settings which we use alongside accompanied stuff.

I do fear though that there will be those who say "why do we need an organist?" if none is provided. And in my parish there is a strong tradition of organ music.

[Nick Baty]

Don't think you'll hear that too often, Hare.
I'd kill for an organist – or a guitarist, flautist or glockenspielist for that matter!

[monty]

Organs, guitars, flutes, violins, whatever can enhance the music and keep the singers in pitch but you cannot have a sung liturgy with just instruments.

[Nick Baty]

Now Monty, if I was Bail Fawlty and you were Sybil, I'd accuse you of "stating the bleedin' obvious"! The assembly is the basic resource. Our job is to lead and support their singing.