O Come, O Come Emmanuel

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:25 am

musicus wrote:You're right - it's utter tosh.

LOL - I wonder if that remark might get into the directory of texts for singing that the Sacred Congregation is asking for.

asb · Post by **asb** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:46 am

musicus wrote:You're right - it's utter tosh.

Ask the CL group to justify their choice.

The daughter of a parishioner who [the daughter] lived abroad for many years has recently returned and expressed a wish to become involved in children's music (part of my job) to which my PP agreed on the basis of "anything for a quiet life". She "knew this lovely Advent song she did 'back home'.

(Yesterday she was supposed to be organizing the children to sing v.2 but she didn't show up. The resulting chaos had to be seen to be believed.)

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:19 pm

asb wrote:Off the top of my head it's 366 in CFE

Which got me wondering what's 666?

In Laudate - it's the plainsong Ave verum corpus - hmmmmmm

Ros Wood · Post by **Ros Wood** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:40 pm

After many years of suffering Light the Advent Candle and moans from our PP about it, I wrote my own Advent Candle Song a few years back. I tried to keep it simple for young children but each verse bears some relation to the readings of the day (Second Coming, John the Baptist, Rejoice, Mary plus a Christmas verse). It's taken off quite well and has been imposed (by the PP) on the 11:00 Mass as well as the 9:00.

As far as I recall 666 in CFE is Spirit of the living God fall afresh on me.

asb · Post by **asb** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:14 pm

We used to do Schiavone's Advent Wreath Service (if you don't know it, it's basically Penitential Rite 3 with Advent invocations), but present PP is against it as he says that the leading of the Penitential Rite is not down to the laity. (For the same reason he won't allow cantors to introduce a Gloria refrain, on the basis that in a plainchant setting the Priest intones "Gloria in excelsis Deo")

Discuss!

docmattc · Post by **docmattc** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:46 pm

asb wrote:We used to do Schiavone's Advent Wreath Service ... but present PP is against it as he says that the leading of the Penitential Rite is not down to the laity.
Discuss!

CTM says of PR3:

The verses or tropes may be sung by a cantor or choir.

We use Schiavone too, but using the tropes to the Taize Kyrie. I sing the tropes.

In H O&N 666 is the Israeli Mass! :wink:

musicus · Post by **musicus** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:53 pm

asb wrote:... to which my PP agreed on the basis of "anything for a quiet life".

but

asb wrote:... but present PP is against it as he says that the leading of the Penitential Rite is not down to the laity.

As the mood takes him...

VML · Post by **VML** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:23 am

I had not ever heard 'Light the Advent candle one...' until last year when new PP put it in the children's afternoon service.

In that context, with 30 or so children aged from two to ten, and their parents and grandparents, it is not so out of place. We used the same service yesterday, and the other songs were rather more scriptually correct:

Prepare the way for the coming of God.
Make a straight path for the coming of God. (repeat)
1 Every valley, fill it in.
Every mountain, make it small.
2 Crooked pathways, make them straight.
All rough land: make it smooth.
3 All will See God's power strong.
God has promised, glory comes.

and

Stay awake (clap, clap). Be ready (clap, clap).
You do not know the hour when the Lord is coming.
Stay awake (clap, clap). Be ready (clap, clap).
The Lord is coming soon!
Alleluia! Alleluia! The Lord is coming soon.

The candle song may be 'tosh' to your older sensibilities, but these are children and families geared up to 'The wheels on the bus,' and 'Humpty Dumpty.'

V.

nazard · Post by **nazard** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:16 am

asb wrote:For the same reason he won't allow cantors to introduce a Gloria refrain, on the basis that in a plainchant setting the Priest intones "Gloria in excelsis Deo"

Discuss!

I know that it is common practice for the priest to intone the gloria, but is it actually laid down in any document that it is to be done that way. It is also common, but possibly wrong for a cantor to do it. I have known the cantor to stand behind a convenient pillar and sing while the priest mimes. Is that going too far?

nazard · Post by **nazard** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:21 am

VML wrote:The candle song may be 'tosh' to your older sensibilities, but these are children and families geared up to 'The wheels on the bus,' and 'Humpty Dumpty.'

V.

We have just got rid of "Light the wretched candle 1" this year after being inflicted with it for five. Everyone still stuck with it has my sympathy.

Songs like Humpty Dumpty and the wheels on the bus are great for three year olds, but you have to be careful not to be using them with children who will be embarrassed by them. Surely one of the things we should be doing for our children is to stretch their minds a little?

gwyn · Post by **gwyn** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:37 am

Re. Light the Advent Candle,

The idea of a hymn/song that captures the theme(s) of Advent Sunday by Sunday is esssentially a good one. The problem with it is that having introduced "Light the Advent candle 1 . . . " the song proceedes to sing about nothing at all to do with Advent 1.

Between us all, couldn't we come up with appropriate lines 2, 3 and 4 for the verses? There's certainly more than enough experience and expertese here.

estuaire · Post by **estuaire** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:31 am

Are we not the new Israel on a pilgrimage whose destination is the new and eternal Jerusalem? Surely we will only fully arrival with the appearance of the Son of God coming on the clouds of glory.
Advent prompts us to think of Christ's three "comings". In history in the stable of Bethlehem; in our own time in word and Sacrament and at the end of time when the whole of creation will be renewed.
Just a thought!

estuaire · Post by **estuaire** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:34 am

I was going back to the beginning of this thread Ref O come o come Emmanuel... by the way

docmattc · Post by **docmattc** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:45 am

estuaire wrote:Are we not the new Israel

I think we need to be careful about the word 'new' here. 'New' meaning replacing the old or 'new' meaning added to the old?

All too often 'new' is taken to mean the former and not the latter. Only one of these interpretations fits with post-VCII thinking

sidvicius · Post by **sidvicius** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:07 pm

That's a very good idea Gwyn, it could be SSG's gift to the world. Anybody else fancy a spot of munificent not-for-profit-making?

Many different but valid views are being expressed here. Strangely, I cannot comment on the toshness or otherwise of LTAC1 because I've never heard it, let alone sung it. Have I been deprived or spared? Anyway this is one occasion where we should celebrating being ahead of the game for once. I'm sure both Paul Inwood and Bernadette Farrell have written new and fine songs for this time of year, I expect other notables have done so too. If I may also interest you in this link to a litany I have used (all the copyright information is at the top or bottom of the page). OK so the tune is maybe a tad trite to us seasoned hacks, but familiarity has its uses at times. Check it out: http://www.refuel.org.uk/curric/festivals/advent/More/traditions_link6_fs.html

Society of Saint Gregory

O Come, O Come Emmanuel

Light the blue touch paper one...