Doing it right?

[presbyter]

sigh - and what's next - are we all to be singing "Lloyd George knew my father, father knew Lloyd George"?

[gwyn]

Good idea. Hadn't though of that.

[pirate]

Stop it, stop it... I tell everyone I follow this discussion board for professional development purposes; how will they believe that if I'm hooting with laughter? And in a library, too!

Pirate

[presbyter]

OK - well here's the professional development bit then - fitting sacred words to popular tunes has been going on for centuries and when, in the liturgy, it got too much, Pope John XXII disapproved - see standard music history text books such as Grout or for more detail, Papal Legislation on Sacred Music by Robert Hayburn (Liturgical Press)

Now - I'm almost there in fitting the Sanctus to the theme of "The Archers".......

[mcb]

and the Lord, have mercy to Coronation Street ("Lord....................... havemercy!"]

The middle eight from the Gathering Mass Holy Holy bears an uncanny resemblance, I've always thought. Just speed up a couple of the notes -

Blessed, blessed is he-who comes (x 2).

(Not as good as the bit from Messiah that begins "Hallelujah", and continues "bananas, we have no bananas today".)

M.

[presbyter]

mcb - that was a defence in a copyright/plagiarism case:

"Yes we have no bananas" was considered a conflation of

"Hallelujah" - from Handel

than an insertion of "banana"

and from a well known Scottish song -

"Oh bring back my Bonnie to me."

By the way - what are we meant to be discussing in this thread - I've forgotten

[Merseysider]

I've forgotten too.
Too busy singing Holy, Holy. to the theme tune of Dallas (or do I mean Dynasty?)

[Maz]

Anyone heard that delightful 'worship' song to the tune of 'La Bamba'?

No chance of congregations forgetting that tune.

[musicus]

Now that I can (see "Announcements"), shall I just modify this topic's title? That way, we could all be back on topic.

[Benevenio]

Is there anyone else for whom "doing it right" sometimes means going against current wisdom? Do you know what I mean?

Define "Current wisdom"... are we talking about the letter of the liturgical books, the current instructions from Rome, or the spirit of Vatican II?
I suspect that by "doing it right" you mean pastorally rather than liturgically right...

If we have a duty to the pastoral care of our assembly (and I suggest that we do), then starting from where your Elsie is now is essential or you'll never be able to gain her confidence that you know what you are doing. But it is only a starting point: Newman said "Growth is the only evidence of life" and for us to be alive musically, litugically, we need to grow. After all, is the liturgy not something that moves us?

Yes, M. I do know what you mean. I've been in this parish for 13 years, and for most of those I have been responsible for one of the two choirs we have. I inherited a choir of enthusistic, but I think they'd agree, repertoire-challenged families. The Parish used the Israeli and Swedish masses, Songs of the Spirit, and Celebration Hymnal (original imprint). (Before anyone replies and contradicts me, there was other music too, but the overall genre was pretty much this.) We've moved, grown, groaned together, but it has not been easy: I've learnt the hard way not to put too much new stuff in, that small steps are best. Whilst I knew what was meant to be right (current wisdom) what I didn't really know how to get there without upsetting the people of the parish - and they soon let me know I was pastorally wrong. The choir moved fast - they were getting this rich repertoire of litugically 'correct' music and grew fat on it, but the assembly were being left behind.

What is encouraging for me is that now some of the parishioners come to me and say how good things are here and how they look forward to the choir singing and playing (and occassionally they even join in ). So, now I know that not only are we striving to get it liturgically correct, but that we are getting the pastoral side right too. The two must go hand-in-hand.

[Merseysider]

Thanks Benevenio – think I'm on your wavelength.

I was introduced to the PP by our dean. And my first reaction was, "We'll never get on together". We're about the same age but very different: he supports Everton and I don't understand football; he drinks Guinness, I prefer G&T… etc. Get the picture? But, amazingly, get on we do – famously.

His predecessor never even said the Gloria – ever – let alone sang it. There were never more than two readings (including the Gospel), Sunday Mass was 25 minutes and Holy Days of took around 15. The people were never asked to think. They were spoon fed. He did two Easter Vigils (we have two churches) each lasting maximum 40 mins.

New PP started in September and everyone thought he was strange because Mass took 50 minutes. Then I made my first appearance on the 1st Sunday of Lent and it appeared even stranger to them when this buffoon stood up there and asked them to sing things.

Since then: we now sing Alleluia, Sanctus, Acclamation, Amen, Agnus, bits of Taizé, communion chants. We got through the Triduum (thanks to a few friends who came along with assorted woodwind, brass and strings). The feedback we got was: "The best Easter ever…", "That was the most beautiful Maundy Thursday in more than 70 years…."., "Thank you. We've been neglected for too long".

We're not doing it all "right" yet. For example, at the Vigil – because we didn't want to scare people off by making it too much longer than they were used to – we limited the symbols to fire and water. The music included just two psalms, Sanctus, Amen, etc. But – and this is the really important point – the people loved it. And we know they'll be back next year expecting it to be equally moving.

On Sundays we have nothing but compliments. Admittedly, in my planning I try not to foist too much too soon.

We now have catechetical and musical links with the three local primaries and we're founding a secondary school choir from two local comprehensives for our Saturday evening Mass.

I've worked in parishes stuffed full of talented musicians. But nothing has ever given me the satisfaction I've had of hearing this (in many ways) deprived community starting to sing and – without having the theory explained to them – understanding why we sing what we sing and when.

Understand now why I recently felt a tad crushed when a local priest-liturgist criticised our efforts. Wish we had a way of showing him then and now snaps of a parish which is truly coming to life.

I'm part of something which is breathing and growing. And my own faith is growing as a result.[/i]

[pirate]

Merseysider, that's good to hear. And what's more, what's happening in the liturgy and in your faith will be happening in other people and in what they do in their lives; so that the work of the Church, the people of God, the body of Christ, which is rooted in and draws its strength and mission from and is aimed towards the liturgy, will also change and grow and draw people in to build up the Church and give greater glory to God - which is (a) why it's vital in the sense of life-giving and (b) why we do it!

One of the criticisms of the reformed/renewed liturgy is that it's accused of being fuzzy and feelgood but there's nothing wrong with feeling good about the unfuzzy things you are seeing happen and we are all (I hope!)working for.

Pirate