Canons to the left of them...

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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presbyter
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Post by presbyter »

Gwyn wrote:The Memorial Acclamation was: "Christus vincit, Vhristus regnat, Christus, Christus imperat" as heard on Vatican radio.


So do you think the Vatican has a dispensation to use this - or are they just ignoring LA and GIRM (the revised Missal of JPII)?
asb
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Post by asb »

Oh dear - I'd better stop using it! :cry:
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gwyn
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Post by gwyn »

Presbyter quoted, re Christus Vincit, Christus Regnat, Christus Imperat,
So do you think the Vatican has a dispensation to use this . . .?
They use it as a sort of jingle, just the melody, wordless.

Is it not allowed then Presbyter? I'd gotten the impression that as it's resurrectional then is OK.
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sidvicius
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EP1 again!

Post by sidvicius »

Merry Christmas Reginald - you'll be pleased to know that EP1 is alive and well in West Sussex, where I am spending my yuletide, and not just any old EP1, but with full Chrysogonuses and Agathas, seeing as it's Christmas, Yeah! :) Let's hear it for the less well known saints.

Are you still in an EP1 dead spot? If only you could put up an aerial for improved transmission (and reception!) of EP1. I asked the PP if there might be any reason for it not being oft said and he said no, not really, except that maybe it was a bit long with the full litanies included, in a sort of 'all or nothing' way.

The church was positively stuffed full and made an unusually good musical noise for the vigil mass, and busy enough for the Day mass, and we had a nice bitesize chunk of sung latin for the Agnus Dei, with smoke in all the right places. To cap it all the town has been unusually quiet and still for two days, and today isn't too bad either. Great Stuff, um, Yeah! :) . To bring us back on topic, I understand that EP1 is on regular rotation hereabouts, with and (usually) without litanies of saints. Hope this cheers you to hear; EP1 not extinct, just regional perhaps. Or hibernating?
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Sonoqui
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Re: EP1 again!

Post by Sonoqui »

sidvicius wrote:.... you'll be pleased to know that EP1 is alive and well ....... with full Chrysogonuses and Agathas


In my church in the Midlands too! (Well, at least at Midnight Mass - don't know about the others.)

Purely as an aside, would someone please explain to me why Chrysogonus (etc.) and Agatha (etc.) are named to the exclusion of others? I've tried various categories (Doctors of the Church, Martyrs, people with blue eyes etc.) but still haven't cracked it. I'm sure that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation which I, as a very imperfect Catholic, should know but don't.

Will someone please enlighten me?
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presbyter
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Re: EP1 again!

Post by presbyter »

Sonoqui wrote:Purely as an aside, would someone please explain to me why Chrysogonus (etc.) and Agatha (etc.) are named to the exclusion of others?


Remember this is the ROMAN Canon - a pilgrimage to Rome - taking in the churches of these saints - will make it more clear...... and possibly cause a thirst for knowledge about the history of the liturgy..... and a thirst for the fermented fruit of the Alban Hills.

Here's the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia

............Communicantes

.......... In the lists of saints that follows, Our Lady of course always holds the first place. She is here named very solemnly with her title of "Mother of God", as in the corresponding Eastern Anaphoras. It is strange that St. John the Baptist, who should come next, has been left out here. He is named in both the Eastern liturgies at this place (Brightman, 93 and 169), and finds his right place at the head of our other list (in the "Nobis quoque"). After Our Lady follow twelve Apostles and twelve martyrs. The Apostles are not arranged in quite the same order as in any of the Gospels. St. Paul at the head, with St. Peter, makes up the number for Judas. St. Matthias is not named here, but in the "Nobis quoque". The twelve martyrs are evidently arranged to balance the Apostles. First come five popes, then a bishop (St. Cyprian), and a deacon (St. Lawrence), then five laymen. All these saints, except St. Cyprian, are local Roman saints, as is natural in what was originally the local Roman Liturgy. It is noticeable that St. Cyprian (d. 258), who had a serious misunderstanding with a Roman pope, is the only foreigner honoured by the Roman Church by being named among her own martyrs. The fact has been quoted to show how completely his disagreement with Pope Stephen was forgotten, and how Stephen's successors remembered him only as one of the chief and most glorious martyrs of the West.

......................


............ Nobis quoque peccatoribus

A prayer for ourselves that naturally follows that for the faithful departed, although the Commemoration for the Living has gone before......................

.......It is a petition that we too may find a good death and be admitted to the glorious company of the saints. The names of saints that follow are arranged rhythmically, as in "Communicantes". Like the others they are all martyrs. First comes St. John the Baptist, as Our Lady before, then seven men and seven women. After the first martyr, St. Stephen, St. Matthias finds here the place he has not been given among the Apostles in the other list. The Peter here is a Roman exorcist martyred at Silva Candida (now part of the Diocese of Porto, near Rome). His feast with St. Marcellinus is on 2 June. The female saints are all well known. Benedict XIV quotes from Adalbert, "De Virginitate", that St. Gregory I, having noticed that no female saints occur in the Canon, added these seven here (p. 162)...........


The full article can be found here

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03255c.htm
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presbyter
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Post by presbyter »

P.S. - When used in the diocese of Rome itself, I think St Frances of Rome should be added to the Canon. She's the patron saint of the city's motorists and they need her.

(Presbyter has memories of a Roman bus being impeded in its progress by a badly parked car. The bus became a bulldozer. The car lost one rear light cluster and the rear nearside wing and bumper were mangled.

Mind you ...... Naples is THE city for dodgem driving. I wonder if car insurance exists there.)
Reginald
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Post by Reginald »

Deo Gratias!!!!!! At last, and after only 21 months or so. Unfortunately I couldn't get it on my home patch, but our school chaplain took pity on me :D
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VML
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Post by VML »

Full Roman Canon this morning in a Mass offered for vocations to the priesthood, - with a congregation of three.
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anne sheila
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Post by anne sheila »

Where there are two or more gathered in my name ...

The main thing is that God knows the intentions ...
anne sheila
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gwyn
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Post by gwyn »

Where there are two or more gathered in my name
Absolutleigh.
docmattc
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Post by docmattc »

EP1 at Saturday night Mass this week, curiously not on Sunday Morning though.
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gwyn
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Post by gwyn »

Saturday eve Pentecost Vigil and Sunday morning here in windswept Abergavenny.

Also used in Birmingham Oratory on Saturday morninig's Patronal Festival Mass - in Latin :)
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