In quires and places.... the originator fights back

[sidvicius]

...the choir have their opportunity elsewhere...

Where, specifically?

[Merseysider]

Polyphonic motets and anthems, choral parts in contemporary songs, descants and harmonies in Holys and Acclamations – the list is pretty much endless.

[sidvicius]

That clears it up - thanks. I award you with the prestigious order of for rapid service to my liturgical understanding!

[mcb]

Here are some reflections on choral Sanctuses and the like. Forgive the lengthy excerpt, but it's nicely topical, and distinctly timely!

It was my friend and former colleague in Münster, Monsignor Emil Joseph Lengeling, who said that when one understood the Sanctus as an authentic part intended for the congregation celebrating the service, "then there result not only compelling conclusions for new compositions, but the exclusion of most Gregorian and all polyphonic settings of the Sanctus, because they exclude the congregation from singing and ignore the acclamatory character of the Sanctus."

With all due respect to the renowned liturgist, that quotation shows that even great experts can err egregiously. First of all, mistrust is always in order when the greater part of living history must be tossed out into the dustbin of old misunderstandings now happily clarified. That is all the more true of the Christian liturgy, which lives out of the continuity and the inner unity of prayer based on faith.

As a matter of fact, the alleged acclamatory character of the Sanctus, to which only the congregation could do justice, is totally unfounded. In the entire liturgical tradition of East and West, the preface always concludes with a reference to the heavenly liturgy and invites the assembled congregation to join in the hymn of heavenly choirs.

...

The congregation gathered in one particular locality opens itself out to the Whole. It also represents those absent; it is united with those far away and those very near. And when in this congregation a choir exists, which can draw the congregation into the cosmic praise and into the wide open space of heaven and earth more strongly than the congregation's own stammering is able to do, then precisely in that moment the delegated, representative function of the choir is especially appropriate and fitting.

Through the choir, a greater transparency toward the praise of angels is rendered possible and therefore a more profound interior participation in the singing, than would be possible in many places through one's own crying and singing.

...

The exclusion alleged by Lengeling and repeated by many others after him, is meaningless. Even after Vatican II, the Sanctus sung by the choir is perfectly justified.

The source? "In the Presence of the Angels I Will Sing Your Praise": The Regensburg Tradition and the Reform of the Liturgy by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

An evening of exploring has given me a distinct impression that there are some real gems to be mined in the new pope's thinking on liturgy. One that's caught my imagination seems to recur in his writings: liturgy is shaped by the timeless and pre-existing character of the heavenly liturgy, rather than as an arbitrary creation of human authors. That's why he takes exception to the suppression of the Missal of 1570 in the aftermath of the promulgation of the Missal of 1970: not because the new Missal wasn't an improvement in some respects, but because the lack of continuity implicit in abolishing the old in favour of the new undermines the eternal character of what it is we take part in.

I'll keep browsing!
M.

[Hare]

Have not had chance to more than skim through the following, but may be of interest...........

http://www.canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art9u1.htm

[VML]

Wow!

[musicus]

Have not had chance to more than skim through the following, but may be of interest...........

http://www.canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art9u1.htm

This is, indeed, very interesting - and enlightening. There is clearly more to this man than the popular image would have us believe. I might even go so far as to say that his thinking, as represented in these articles, provides us with a possible reconciliation of the seemingly diametrically opposed views that we have read in this thread.

Musicus

[Merseysider]

This is, indeed, very interesting

Yes, indeed.

- and enlightening.

No.

There is clearly more to this man than the popular image would have us believe.

Since his appointment I have never felt less Roman, have never felt less Catholic. I'll be honest, I wept.

Anyone know where I can follow a fast-track course in Methodism?

[Hare]

[Since his appointment I have never felt less Roman, have never felt less Catholic. I'll be honest, I wept.

Anyone know where I can follow a fast-track course in Methodism?

Err....why do you feel this way, and why Methodism in particular?

[dunstan]

There is clearly more to this man than the popular image would have us believe.

I'm sure the same is the case with all the cardinals.

I might even go so far as to say that his thinking, as represented in these articles, provides us with a possible reconciliation of the seemingly diametrically opposed views that we have read in this thread.
Musicus

Well, before and during the the conclave, I was imploring the Holy Spirit to choose a pope who would give priority to liturgy. Remember, while the participants in this forum (and society members as a whole) are a self selecting sample of people who are interested in liturgy (albeit as lay practitioners), most of the faithful perceive the quality of liturgy as "I found that uplifting", or "that left me cold".

And liturgy wasn't exactly high on JPII'2 things-to-do list. Now that Benedift XVI has been chosen, it would appear that he has a lot to say on the subject of liturgy: this is A Good Thing. If we can now move on from "liturgical enforcement" to liturgical renewal, development and improvement then I for one will feel my prayers have been answered.