Two Issues (Communion Hymns and Month of May)

[Nick Baty]

I just put on any hymn to Our Lady that anyone when anyone wants it (usually at communion) & at Sundays in May.

Really?

[johnquinn39]

Absolutely Nick!

I am just too old (50) to argue with people.

It is not my job to 'impose' or refuse any text, style or musical setting.

[Nick Baty]

I would have thought that was exactly your job.

[johnquinn39]

Not at all Nick.

I suggest musical settings, and some hymns and responses. If people like them then that's great.

Am I wrong, but is it the Archbishop's job to advise on Liturgy?

[Nick Baty]

Isn't that rather like a teacher refusing to teach what they've been asked to do as it's really the headteacher's job?

[johnquinn39]

Nick, I haven't been asked to teach anything.

I have tried to in the past, but have always been over-ruled by RC teachers.

[Nick Baty]

?

[johnquinn39]

Perhaps we need to break off into another thread, along the lines of:

What is the job of RC liturgical musicians?

Are we there to teach?


What do you think Musicus?

[Nick Baty]

We could. But I'd suggest we are most definitely not there to teach.

[Peter]

We will be singing 'As I kneel before you' after the communion antiphon, I think next week.

A few years ago I played in the music group at a Confirmation Mass and was appalled to see this as one of the postcommunion hymns (it was in November, so not even the Maytime excuse could be called up). When I pointed out to the leader of the group that the focus at this point should be on the Eucharist, not Our Lady, I received the answer "The children asked for it". Shouldn't such occasions be an opportunity to educate children in good liturgy?

Back at my own church, where we don't use congregational hymnbooks but prepare our own Mass sheets each week, a lady asked me a few weeks ago "why can't we sing the usual words to hymn tunes?" When I pointed out to her how the words we did have at Mass referred in some way to one of more of the readings of the day but that we used familiar tunes so that people could sing them easily, she saw the point and the conversation appeared to give her some food for thought; I think she'll look at the words more carefully in future. I don't feel our hymns are "imposed" on the congregation but I think it right to give them something that has been thought out instead of responding to requests uncritically. Of course, we do use familiar words when they fit the readings, but should we do so as a matter of course just because someone asked for them? When I'm asked to include a particular hymn my answer is always to make a note of the request "for use when it is appropriate". (That way the only time "Shine, Jesus, Shine" is likely to get used is when Transfiguration falls on a Sunday, not that I've had a request for it for a long time. )

[Nick Baty]

I do something similar, Peter. And people usually appear happy that their requests have been heard. And I really do bear such things in mind when planning. (Having said that, not sure I'm yet forgiven for not scheduling Hail Glorious Saint Patrick on 17 March which just happened to be the fifth Sunday of Lent.)

While I don't approve of "teaching" in liturgy (musically, anyway) I'm all in favour of learning. And, while introducing a new communion processional, for example, I might casually mention that the words are from today's Gospel. Interesting to note the little smiles around the building: People understand why we're doing what we do without having it hammered home.

[helen rees]

I really could do with some prayers here because I am being told I have to have hymns to Mary at every mass and it has to be at the offertory collection time because and I quote " the 'female' church presents the offertory gifts to the 'male' preserve of the Sanctuary and altar." This is the time to adore Mary. I know its so wrong in so many ways. I ignored it and we sang "Salve Regina" at the bidding prayers. But I can't do that again because that is wrong apparently! I will do it for May but there is a dreadful shortage of reasonable Marian hymns. Help any suggestions for re training the PP on the "theology" of the mass and Mary's role in the church. And what hymns do you sing

[Nick Baty]

Has this instruction come from the PP?

[Biodiode]

This has turned into an interesting debate, more than I thought it would. The posts about how communion hymns work in different parishes is interesting and most of you seem to have the use of a music group every weekend, which is a big help. There is one trick I used to use when it was just me and the organ and that was to sing the 1st verse quite loud, then hope and pray that it was enough to get it going. Problem is if you don't know all the words for the verses you are stuck for the following ones

For Marian hymns, our church is pretty healthy in that area and we do sing Hail Queen of Heaven with some gusto. One interesting one I do with the choir when it's proper to do so is Sing We of the Blessed Mother, to the tune of Blaenwern instead of the suggest Abbots Leigh.

[IncenseTom]

Regarding the Missal Entrance and Communion antiphons, surely the fact that they are included indictaes they are the preferred text to be sung?

I find it quite surprising that the antiphons are intended to be recited when the new Missal includes so much more music than its predecessors.

Why would the church provide a text for recitation at a point where it asks us to sing something appropriate to the liturgical action?

Moreover, why would most of these texts (intended for recitation) be derived from the Graduale Romanum, the church's official music book, and preferred source for selecting music to accompany the Entrance and Communion processions?

Sorry to bang on about this - how I wish every parish just sang the chants from the Graduale Romanum and none of these awful hymns had ever been composed and there wouldn't be all this going round in circles and having arguments about music for Mass.

Maybe i'm way off the mark with all this and i'll go and stick my head over the thurible.