The New Texts: A Seminar for Composers

[quaeritor]

Lord God of Posts, Nick?

Well Nick is "headlining" as last contributor to the first eight topics at the moment - is that a record? - drat! I've just spoiled it! - say something quickly, Nick and restore the position.

Q

[Nick Baty]

Sorry, Q, can't think of anything to write!

[presbyter]

Still can't get my head around "hosts":(

I think what might have happened with our present text is that the ICET folk could have dodged the issue of having to translate Sabaoth - the word used in the vision of Isaiah 6:3 (the basis of the liturgical text) - and instead they based the opening of the Sanctus on the vision in Revelation 4:8.

Hagios Hagios Hagios Kurios ho Theos Pantocrator

Holy Holy Holy Lord (the) God Pantocrator i.e. Almighty = "power and might".


Sabaoth is the plural of saba - an army. So did ICET use the Revelation text to avoid the awkwardness of the possibility of a bellicose God? i don't know.

Yet the answer to wherever on the forum someone has bemoaned that God will no longer be "powerful and mighty" in the new translation, is that our current ICET use seems to be an amalgam of Isaiah 6 and Revelation 4, rather than a translation of the liturgical text.

[Nick Baty]

When the new translation was unveiled, the bloggers on a certain site were rejoicing in the fact that "Lord God of hosts" was "one in the eye of the pacifists!". So, for them, a bellicose God indeed. I suppose each member of each congregation will have their own mind pictures for these words.

[presbyter]

I suppose each member of each congregation will have their own mind pictures for these words.

I think Sabaoth (hosts) can be interpreted legitimately as a huge mass of people ........ why not all people?

[Nick Baty]

And I suppose that's where the approaching three months of catechesis will come in useful!

[HallamPhil]

I suspect people will more interested to learn whether Mass will last longer and their roasts will be burned. Much of this discussion is for consenting adults only ... and the pixies.

[Nick Baty]

Totally agree with you. And as many of our people go to neighbouring parishes where Mass may, or may not, contain some of the elements in the Roman Missal, they'll probably see the new texts as "one of Father's lovely ideas – ooh, 'e does do Mass luverly".

[HallamPhil]

If you hadn't steamed in so quickly I might have edited it with some clever pun on comma and coma. That will have to wait for another pixie!

[Nick Baty]

You can still edit!
And who's steaming?
(Well, I do have cheesy dumplings bubbling away!)

[HallamPhil]

Please remember this is an open forum and children and pixies may be watching

[Nick Baty]

I think it all comes down to what Musicus describes (in his initial post) as "what our hopes and expectations of the sessions might be".

[musicus]

Please get back to the topic. (Seriously)

[HallamPhil]

Perhaps you could post a recipe? Or would this be another thread? And does anyone know who is doing the catering for the Seminar? (Phew , back on topic, musicus!)

[quaeritor]

It's just this kind of discussion (without, perhaps the lightness of mood) that I fear may consume a large slice of the day at the seminars - some assurance would be welcome - perhaps an indication of the timetable?

Q

(This was meant in reference to Presbyter's doubtlessly learned discourse on "Sabaoth" which while admittedly fascinating is not going to bring about any change. It's "hosts", folks - live with it!

Q (editing)