The New Texts: A Seminar for Composers

[Nick Baty]

You mean it should "that a suitable or an appropriate song may NOT sung"? Surely not.

[VML]

Nick, I'm beginning to doubt my capacity to read and write! The word I had in mind was 'be.'

[quaeritor]

A member of my choir has forwarded me this link - I pass it on with apologies for some of its tone and for not having revised the whole of this thread in case this is old news (well, it is nearly midnight!).

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/01/england- ... -december/

(The abbreviated form of the link as I see it in the preview of this post doesn't reveal the significant words "in-september-not-december")

The pace seems to be quickening.

Q

[Nick Baty]

Nick, I'm beginning to doubt my capacity to read and write! The word I had in mind was 'be.'

Not at all. Twas I not reading properly!
There was a publisher of the King James Bible who was fined heavily for omitting the word NOT from the Sixth (Seventh) Commandment!

[Nick Baty]

And now the rumours are apparently confirmed: http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2 ... and-wales/
Composers to publishers, publishers to bishops/ICEL/press, publications circulated and publicised.... Can these really happen in time?

[presbyter]

Readers might be interested to know - I have heard a whisper that one of the southern and one of the northern presenters of the seminar days are engaged in research as to how to set the new translation of the Sanctus.

One presenter said to me recently. "There's more to this than just the loss of the ICET comma."

I suppose I'll find out what he means on 19th March.......... and what's an "ICET comma"?

[Nick Baty]

..... and what's an "ICET comma"?

There are two.
One has gone – the other has been replaced.

In the present text:
Holy, holy, holy Lord, God power and might,
heaven and earth are full of your glory.

In the new version, the first comma has been removed and the second has been replaced with a full stop,
Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts.
Heaven and earth are full of your glory.

Note, also, the arrival of the ICEL caps on Holy, Holy, Holy...

[docmattc]

Where is the comma in Sanctus(x3) Domine Deus Sabaoth?
...Sanctus, Domine Deus Sabaoth. or ...Sanctus Domine, Deus Sabaoth.

I don't think the original (Is 6:3) suffers this problem as YWH is used instead of 'Lord God'
But that's maybe a topic for a different thread.

[Nick Baty]

Indeed, where is so much of the new translation in the Latin text?

[presbyter]

Where is the comma in Sanctus(x3) Domine Deus Sabaoth?
...Sanctus, Domine Deus Sabaoth. or ...Sanctus Domine, Deus Sabaoth.

All will be revealed at the seminars .....

[Nick Baty]

You're just teasing now!

[quaeritor]

Where is the comma in Sanctus(x3) Domine Deus Sabaoth?

. . Domine . " - ? - have they revised the Latin too?

Meanwhile, and more seriously,

All will be revealed at the seminars .....

I am still trying to dodge some commitments in order to sign up for the Salford seminar, (yes, I know time is running out) and I note that the first two topics are:

# Explain why a new translation has been produced
# Examine the translation process, and the principles behind it

I do hope this is not going to develop into a prolonged "what a wonderful/dreadful [delete as appropriate]translation" argument - unless, of course, there is any faint chance that anything might actually be changed as a result of such a discussion - I'd feel I'd had a rather wasted day!

Q

[Nick Baty]

I do hope this is not going to develop into a prolonged "what a wonderful/dreadful translation" argument - unless, of course, there is any faint chance that anything might actually be changed as a result of such a discussion

With you there, Q. As a parish musician I have no choice but to obey so the wherefores become somewhat pointless.

Still can't get my head around "hosts" – and, yes, I know it's origins – it's just such a weak word. Much harder to sing "Huh" instead of "Puh". But ours is not to reason why!

[admin]

Still can't get my head around "hosts" – and, yes, I know it's origins – it's just such a weak word. Much harder to sing "Huh" instead of "Puh". But ours is not to reason why!

Lord God of Posts, Nick? Sounds like an admin function to me…

[Nick Baty]

Much, much worse – a spurious apostrophe in my last post!
N