plainchant mass, etc.

[docmattc]

To get us back to topic, perhaps someone can point us in the direction of a CD that teaches us how to read plainchant.

[mcb]

Not a CD, but here's an Idiot's Guide to Square Notes. Even this makes it more complicated than it really needs to be.

[nazard]

The Music Makers' CDs are as close as I have ever found. I'll stick with Martin that square notes are easy. He has already given the rules for rhythm, for pitch you also need to know:

where two notes are above each other sing the bottom one first.

where there is a broad stroke of the pen forming a diagonal line across the page it isn't a scale, you just have to sing the end notes where it starts and finishes.

all the names for different groups of notes do not need to be learned. Just call them all blobs - it is good enough.

Look out for slightly bigger gaps in the music between blobs : that tells you to change syllable in the words.

The bar lines come in various types, from quarter lines, through half lines and single lines to double lines. They indicate how much break you can have. A quarter bar line is just the briefest pause, a single bar line is a good breath, and a double bar line is a second or two's break. I was taught to wait for the echo to die away completely at a double bar.

[NorthernTenor]

Cut to the chase. Plainchant isn't difficult to read.

Hugely debatable – I've been trying for years and still can't read it.

I've been attempting to go cold turkey on comment boards, but it's just too much. I shall bale out of rehab in order to observe that, as with all kinds of sight-reading, practice perfects; and to ask you, Nick, whether it's the pitches or rhythms of plainsong notation that you find difficult?

[alan29]

Why De Angelis, though? It isn't exactly the best thing in the repertoire (it is so late as to be almost Baroque,) nor the easiest to learn.
Alan

[Nick Baty]

Not really sure NT.
Sang from Plainsong for Schools and Liber Usualis as a treble.
Studied some chant for my first degree, have been on courses with Mary Berry and Philip Duffy.
And somehow it still eludes me.
Of course, I can sing De Angelis, Orbis Factor, Cum Jubilo etc from memory.

[NorthernTenor]

Not really sure NT.
Sang from Plainsong for Schools and Liber Usualis as a treble.
Studied some chant for my first degree, have been on courses with Mary Berry and Philip Duffy.
And somehow it still eludes me.
Of course, I can sing De Angelis, Orbis Factor, Cum Jubilo etc from memory.

I suspect you illustrate a key point in relation to the thread - the formulaic patterns of plainsong Ordinaries and simple Propers can be readily learned by assemblies when given the chance, without recourse to the dots. Musicians, on the other hand, sometimes have a problem working with neume notation, because it's half familiar, half not. The trick, I think, is to forgo attempts to translate to modern notation on the fly, and to 'just do it' as frequently as possible, with the help of a well-prepared DM. At some point it will click.

Now why does that remind me of my ongoing conversion to Catholicism?

[Nick Baty]

The trick, I think, is to forgo attempts to translate to modern notation on the fly

Hm! Not sure about that. If the assembly is used to modern notation and then, one Sunday, they're being introduced to a Sanctus they've not sung before, and the dots look different, I think they'd struggle. It all depends on how the cantor/animator introduces music to the assembly. If it were me, I'd definitely use modern notation on the service sheets.

[Nick Baty]

Both the music and a recording of the Lourdes 2008 Mass are available from the Librarie in the Sanctuaries. Website: http://www.lourdes-editions.com/

Thanks for that Ros. Tried to order online but my French is not good enough to risk my credit card. A friend is buying it for me when she's on pilgrimage.

[NorthernTenor]

The trick, I think, is to forgo attempts to translate to modern notation on the fly

Hm! Not sure about that. If the assembly is used to modern notation and then, one Sunday, they're being introduced to a Sanctus they've not sung before, and the dots look different, I think they'd struggle. It all depends on how the cantor/animator introduces music to the assembly. If it were me, I'd definitely use modern notation on the service sheets.

What an unusually musically literate assembly you work with, Nick. Most parishioners process tunes from memory.

[Nick Baty]

Not particularly. But over the last five years I've noticed that the more they look at the dots, the more they follow them. And it means I don't have to wave my arms around all the time like a demented windmill – which, to my mind, no cantor/animator should.

The assembly would have to be particularly musically talented to hear something like a new or unfamiliar Sanctus once before Mass and then sing it from memory – with no dots – half an hour later.

As soon as they know an item well enough to sing it with confidence, then it disappears from service sheets – and the volume increases.

[NorthernTenor]

The assembly would have to be particularly musically talented to hear something like a new or unfamiliar Sanctus once before Mass and then sing it from memory – with no dots – half an hour later.

As soon as they know an item well enough to sing it with confidence, then it disappears from service sheets – and the volume increases.

err .. that was my point, Nick. Particular Ordinary chants will be sung frequently enough for the congregation to internalise them, i.e. 'just get it'. That's the point of their formulaic construction. The same goes for frequently sung plainsong hymns and propers. Dots will not be ncessary. Before a new chant is introduced, the organist and cantor or choir will practice it often enough to be able to give a good lead. In relation to the chants that are sung by the people, that's what we're for.

[gwyn]

Northen Tenor said

Particular Ordinary chants will be sung frequently enough for the congregation to internalise them, i.e. 'just get it'. That's the point of their formulaic construction. The same goes for frequently sung plainsong hymns and propers. Dots will not be ncessary. Before a new chant is introduced, the organist and cantor or choir will practice it often enough to be able to give a good lead. In relation to the chants that are sung by the people, that's what we're for.

Sounds about right to me. It's how I learned much of my Liturgical repertoire, recited as well as sung.

[Nick Baty]

Particular Ordinary chants will be sung frequently enough for the congregation to internalise them, i.e. 'just get it'.

On week one?

Before a new chant is introduced, the organist and cantor or choir will practice it often enough to be able to give a good lead.

In which case, 'tis you with the more musical assembly – because how will they know when to go up and down without blobs?

[NorthernTenor]

Particular Ordinary chants will be sung frequently enough for the congregation to internalise them, i.e. 'just get it'.

On week one?

Before a new chant is introduced, the organist and cantor or choir will practice it often enough to be able to give a good lead.

In which case, 'tis you with the more musical assembly – because how will they know when to go up and down without blobs?

On week one? I'm tempted to quote Mr. Macenroe, but I'll limit myself to suggesting you haven't read what I've written. Outside of atypical groups, few congregants outside of the choir read music, and few of those who do will be able to sight sing it. To suggest otherwise is the stuff of cloud-cuckoo land (or perhaps Hungary). So, with liturgical chant as with any traditional communal music, the musicians learn, practice and lead, and over time the rest learn to follow. It's quite straight-forward when you think about it.