Bring flowers of the rarest

[gwyn]

"The kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old."

[johnquinn39]

I would be interested to know where these new ideas are coming from - communion kneeling and on the tongue (not traditional) - altar rails (no liturgical function), Marian hymns and devotions at Mass (is this permitted?).

'Bring flowers of the rarest' has no scriptural content. 'O Mother! I could weep with mirth' is drivel.

[dmu3tem]

To answer the initial question. Yes, in our parish we do have hymns to the Virgin Mary during May. Similar efforts are also made at Stonyhurst, although I doubt whether they sing this actual hymn. In the nineteenth century May verses were hung up outside the Boys Chapel. Gerard Manley Hopkins contributed one which the authorities rejected!

As for the actual hymn. This is interesting. Look at the different accompaniment versions that are available. Normally people do it in a 'churchy' 4 part block harmony version; but if you look at the 'swing' of the melody, then it clearly will go well (albeit rather crudely) with a waltz type um-pah-pah pattern. I have a feeling (I might be wrong about this) it comes in this guise in the original 1890s edition of the Notre Dame Hymnal. Certainly this contains arrangements of other hymns in this sort of style. Who says that a 'happy-clappy' 'folk' (in the loosest Kevin-Mayhew sense) style popular idiom was not available to Catholics in the 'good old days'!

If you set it in this 'folk' fashion - as I have done - the effects are quite startling. First the tempo speeds up, initially catching congregations by surprise. Next the tempo tends to be more rigid, with less obvious scope for rubato treatments (although I bet this happened in pre-Vatican II days). Third, with the organ/keyboard committed to pure accompaniment (it also adapts well to rhytm guitar backing too), you need another melody instrument if your choir/cantor cannot lead the congregation with enough firmness. Fourth, at the faster tempo the text seems much less sentimental and the whole 'feel' of the hymn becomes more buccolic, which I suppose might be (shockingly) appropriate given the old association of May with maypoles and other pagan fertility cults.

Thomas (Muir)

[musicus]

are post-concilliar...examples better...certainly less numerous.

Probably because Marian devotions are less frequent – and that most likely because the people stopped coming once they had cars and out of town stores started opening on Sundays.

I agree. That history of the SSG (and much more, of course), English Catholic Worship, offers the same analysis.

I was recently harassed by someone who only visits our parish to complain and then goes away: Why, she asked, were there no Marian devotions in May or October? I suggested that we'd love it and she might like to organise them. She declined. By the way, the same lady doesn't come to evening prayer – when we do end with a Marian anthem – doesn't come to church on Maundy Thursday "because it's not a holy day of obligation" and avoids the Easter Vigil because "you've added all those readings".

But I've gone off topic and fear a spanking from the bear.

Look at the original post; this topic is more than its title, and seems to me to be about the use (and, some might say, abuse) of 'devotional' music. Carry on!

[Nick Baty]

I remember a local organist who insisted on Hail Glorious St Patrick when the 17 March fell on one of the Sundays of Lent. "It would have been St Patrick's Day," he argued. "Yes, but it isn't," I replied.

Look at the original post; this topic is more than its title...Carry on!

So no spanking then?

[gwyn]

I'd imagine that such devotion, where it occurs, would be at the end of mass and after the Dismissal. That's certainly the case with us.

There's a lot in what John Quinn says. Since though, we worship in spirit and in truth, then surely there's a place for emotional outpouring, “Flowers of the rarest” I feel, might legitimately sit in there.

We don't use "O Mother I would weep with Mirth" b.t.w., I simply say that to whip up an emotional backlash. It never fails.

Now, In the immortal words of Chief Petty Officer Pertwee (let the reader understand); "Everybody down!"

[Nick Baty]

To answer the initial question. Yes, in our parish we do have hymns to the Virgin Mary during May.

I'd imagine that such devotion, where it occurs, would be at the end of mass and after the Dismissal. That's certainly the case with us.

With all the Sundays of May, this year, falling in Eastertide, on Ascension Day and Pentecost, surely these feasts take precedence. We'll continue to sing Alleluia loud and strong to the bitter end. Lots of excuses to use yummy stuff like Taizé's Surrexit Christus, Surrexit Dominus Vere etc which always guarantee a rousing response.

[gwyn]

Lots of excuses to use yummy stuff like Taizé's Surrexit Christus, Surrexit Dominus Vere etc which always guarantee a rousing response.

Absolutleigh! They're great.

[Nick Baty]

Absolutleigh!

Is that based on Abbot's Leigh?
Sorry – I'll get me coat.

[gwyn]

Is that based on Abbot's Leigh?

Fantastic.

[JW]

Anyone crown a statue of Our Lord and sing 'Crown Him With Many Crowns' on the feast of Christ The King?

[musicus]

Anyone crown a statue of Our Lord and sing 'Crown Him With Many Crowns' on the feast of Christ The King?

And if not, why not?

[musicus]

Is there a historian in the house? Where did all this statue crowning and flower strewing come from? Is it indigenous or must we look further afield?

I bet it's pagan assimilation.

[Nick Baty]

May Queen, perhaps?
Christianisation of fertility symbol.
I do hope so – then we can have liturgical morris dancing!

[pirate]

When importuned to put in Marian stuff at Mass I sometimes oblige with a song of praise based on the Magnificat. You'd be surprised at the number of people who humph and sniff at this option. Clearly it doesn't count!