technology and CDs and such.......

[Nick Baty]

I'll be using quite a bit of technology at Midnight Mass.

I've programmed several items as midi and will be playing them through our new Clavinova 401 – with live singers and live brass. It means there'll be quite a full orchestral sound.

[oopsorganist]

That's just it Nick.

I suspect there are solutions away in the technology...... I've got a digital keyboard nasty and cheap but it probably does stuff..........and can be wired up to other stuff........ and that there is potential for extending what we can do..... but frustratingly I don't know what to do with anything. I must read the instruction booklet. Where did I put it? There is also a keyboard just as cheap but not so nasty down at church which might do stuff...... maybe not this Christmas but in the future.............but I am such a Dinosaur. Rarrghh.

I might be going to have a breakthrough. Or a breakdown. Now let me see........

[VML]

I am reviving this thread to try and clarify just what I can/ cannot or should/should not do about the use of CDs in church. The choir and music group and organ used to provide music throughout confessions during the Lent and Advent penitental services as confessions take place where they might be perceived to be overheard. Now a CD is used and after a few glitches Fr had someone at the ready to go and skip a track that might contain the A word during Lent, only he hadn't reckoned on the Taize Gloria including it...
I am being a bit facetious. The CD here is just about tolerable and of course 'everyone' thinks it's lovely background music..

We even have a, -to me- sophisticated remote control with radio receiver for PP to work the CD from the altar when necessary. It is not often used, mostly only for funerals. Then we had the organist's revenge: A big requiem for the long serving founding former head of our high school. The school organist was playing and I was really relishing hearing him play. But the family had decided that they should come in to Allegri's Miserere on CD, which I realised, though I imagine no one else did, had gone into the next track before it was stopped...So.... when it came to the track during Communion, Faure's Pie Jesu, the remote came into play and started the wrong track, so our PP, one one four concelebrants, left the altar to sort it out, and the organist played the Faure anyway!

But what has led me here is last Friday's school Mass; parish primary at parish morning Mass and quite well organised. They even sang a 'Holy holy.' But at the start of Communion the RE co-ordinator left to go to the sacristy to put on a track of an 'inspriring song' well sung to mellow cello backing, far more professional than we or the children could produce. Then, while Communion was still being distributed, she went to retrieve the CD. I have to question my motives. Am I just irritated because of the way it was done? Should I be inspired by such stuff? Should the children?
I am only the parish music person, and though I have offered to contribute something to the school music, they have a professional accompanist and peris so don't need me.
Should I interfere? I admit my first reaction was (quietly) rather extreme. I felt like saying that if they want perfect recorded music at Mass they can have it, and I'll retire. But I would much rather be encouraging and suggest that a prayerful chorus is a much better processional. But does anyone care? Should anyone care? It was a school Mass after all and earlier forum posts suggest it is OK to use some recordings during Masses for children.

[Nick Baty]

Personally, I'm totally anti the use of CDs.
However, does your parish have a MCPS(RPS) licence? It will cost at least £20 a track.

[musicus]

I too would avoid the use of CDs altogether, but, if you do use them, here are more details about licensing:

From http://www.baptist.org.uk/Resources/res ... ds/422.pdf :

Would using a secular CD track in a church service for meditation count as incidental music?
The Performing Right Society (PRS) and Phonographic Performance Ltd choose not to charge for the playing of sound recordings or the live performance of music within an Act of Worship.

Do we require any licence for playing music outside of acts of worship?
Yes. CCLI act as agent to the performing Right Society (PRS) for the PRS Church Licence. This licence covers the playing of sound recordings (CD’s etc) for background music at activities such as youth groups, and coffee mornings. The PRS church licence is also required for any live concerts (paid or free entry) held on the church venue.

That is my understanding too; you don't need a licence to play CDs in the course of church services - but you do need one if, for example, you play background music from CDs during a coffee morning or suchlike on church premises. The PRS Church Licence also covers you for live performance of copyright music. See http://www.ccli.co.uk/licences/churches ... -music.cfm for more details about the licence. Licence fees are based on the average aggregated attendance at your main service, so, for example, the annual fee for a church whose main service attracts between 100 and 249 people is £87.40

[Nick Baty]

Thanks, Musicus. I sit corrected.
Full details at: http://www.prsformusic.com/playingbroad ... nce.aspx#6

[Southern Comfort]

No need to sit corrected.

6. Music used in divine worship

PRS for Music, at its discretion, does not make a charge for music used at a recognised Service of Divine Worship in consecrated places of worship (of any recognised faith), where no charge is made to attendees for admission.

Back to top



7. Music used in wedding ceremonies, civil wedding ceremonies and civil partnership ceremonies

PRS for Music, at its discretion, does not charge for music use as part of official wedding ceremonies or similar, in whatever premises the ceremony takes place. This includes:

* Religious ceremonies
* Civil ceremonies
* Civil partnership ceremonies

These both refer to live performance, not recorded music, and this has always been the PRS policy (modified to take account of the fact that weddings now commonly take place in non-church settings). For the public performance of recorded music, Nick was right: an MCPS mechanical licence is still required. The PRS website does not make this clear. Such a licence, as already pointed out, is included within the CCLI licence, but if you don't use CCLI it's much cheaper to go direct to MCPS.

VML - do you also need us to debate the liturgical appropriateness (or otherwise) of using CDs, or is this info enough?

[VML]

The liturgical side was what I really would like to debate. (I suspect the record that irritated me was made by evangelical friends of the teacher concerned, as she has used their psalm settings for First Communions in the past. So copyright would probably not have been an issue this time.) I believe the Church likes to keep music live!? I hope I am not alone.

[Southern Comfort]

I believe the Church likes to keep music live!? I hope I am not alone.

At the risk of opening up a recently-festering sore, may I simply say that I agree. Live music is an authentic representation of who the community is.

[Nick Baty]

If music is servant of rite, can there be any positive reason for using CDs? Can't completely rationalise/verbalise this, but I can't think of a single reason for using CDs in liturgy. (And before you all pile in I already understand I am a dinosaur and my views are a tad to the left.)

[contrabordun]

I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer to be served by a butler or a dumb waiter.

[NorthernTenor]

When it comes to recorded music in Church, I agree with Southern Comfort (sit down and have a G&T, SC!). That opinion is formed by the experience of making music in worship, and belief in the principals of the Liturgical Movement. It's reinforced by experience of the ubiquitous recorded chant and organ music in French Cathedrals - beautiful and grounded in the liturgy, but impersonal nonetheless.

That's a different issue to synthesised music under the control of members of the Assembly, which should be judged on the extent to which it supports the liturgy and encourages the various kinds of participation of the faithful, on its conformity to our liturgical traditions, and its on aesthetic value (yes, this calls for value judgement).

One final observation: the chief musical instrument in our liturgical tradition is the voice. We are called to sing the Mass. All else, no matter how desirable, is not necessary.

[Nick Baty]

We are called to sing the Mass. All else, no matter how desirable, is not necessary.

Couldn't agree more: organs, choirs etc are optional extras.

[Southern Comfort]

One final observation: the chief musical instrument in our liturgical tradition is the voice. We are called to sing the Mass. All else, no matter how desirable, is not necessary.

I know I keep going on about this, but the Psallite thing about "essentially vocal" music seems to me to be very valid.

[Southern Comfort]

I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer to be served by a butler or a dumb waiter.

That's a great quote. Thank you, CB