Misplaced addition to the rite?

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Southern Comfort
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by Southern Comfort »

HallamPhil wrote:Re Southern Comfort's proposal ... I believe this might have been mentioned in a Liturgy Office publication about Celebrating the feast. I wonder if it was also there that it was suggested that this might be a better day for concentraton on all ministry within the Body of Christ ... all of us becomng what we receive rather than a concentration on the elements and who delivers them.

But I could be wrong ... it's late!


If it was, it's not on the LO website.

festivaltrumpet wrote:This thread has so far discussed the renewal of commitment by ordinary ministers. Extraordinary ministers of communion should not be singled out for recommitment lest it reinforce the misconception that they are clergy and that they have an entitlement to distribute the Blessed Sacrament.


I understand this fear, but do not agree with it. A public acknowledgement of service rendered to a community is not the same as creeping clericalism, and may not come across as such.

festivaltrumpet wrote:It would be better to remove that notion and stress the extraordinary nature of the role.


Here we enter into more difficult territory and risk going off-topic. In theory, the role is extra-ordinary. In practice, it isn't. In fact we can rejoice in seeing just how much lay ministers are able to make a valuable contribution to the life of the community (and I don't mean just at Mass). The problem is that Rome continues to insist on how extra-ordinary lay ministers are. One reason is that they fear a diminution of the status of the priest, though I think that fear is unfounded. The other more obvious reason is that they don't actually know what lay ministers look like because they have never seen them. They don't exist in Rome. The place is black with priests, so lay ministers are not needed. (The same ignorance drives their restrictions around Communion under both kinds - they don't know what it looks like or what the logistics [e.g. purification] are because it never normally happens for the laity in Rome. Don't get me started.)

festivaltrumpet wrote:If the suggestion which Southern Comfort makes were utilised, one would also need to recommit all laity who excercise a role within the liturgy.


That's precisely what quite a number of parishes do. They have a "Ministry Sunday". There was a time when the fashion was to do this on Maundy Thursday evening. They based this on the act of service in foot-washing and on the institution of the Eucharist, but it overloaded the rite - which is where this whole thread started.

I have no more problem about acknowledging the service of different kinds of ministry (as mentioned above) than I have about, for example, inducting a new Parish Pastoral Council during Mass, which certainly happens. Just as long as you don't do it too often, don't overdo it so that it does look clerical, and make sure that you acknowledge the ministry of the assembly too - all those folk who don't have a specific ministerial role but who bind the Church together by their very presence (as well as by their financial contributions :wink: ).
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musicus
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by musicus »

Southern Comfort wrote:Here we enter into more difficult territory and risk going off-topic.

Please carry on. IMHO the discussion about ordinary/extra-ordinary ministries is all to the point and in the spirit of the original post.
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by SOP »

Southern Comfort wrote:
SOP wrote:In our case, all deacons go on to become priests.


I hope you don't mean this. Is there no provision for rooting out unsuitable candidates out even at that late stage?!

What you mean is that all your deacons are transitional, rather than permanent.



Unfortunately, in this day and age, once a deacon is ordained it would have to be something major for them not to go on to be ordained as a priest. If the seminarian wished to back off then that would be one way they would go no further but I truly believe that otherwise they will become a priest.
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by presbyter »

HallamPhil wrote:(since Christ did not 'ordain' anyone)


I'm not sure what you mean by that - are you?
Southern Comfort
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by Southern Comfort »

musicus wrote:Please carry on. IMHO the discussion about ordinary/extra-ordinary ministries is all to the point and in the spirit of the original post.


Thank you. It's nice to know one isn't totally off the wall!
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by presbyter »

Perhaps a more general question to all - what do you think the Holy Thursday Mass of the Lord's Supper is about? (Hint - read your Missals - the answers are all in the readings and the prayers)

And..........

What do you think the foot washing is about?

I suggest that if we can tease out the theology of the rite - we might see that it's got something profound to say/signify about the two sacraments being commemorated on this evening.
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Re: Misplaced addition to the rite?

Post by HallamPhil »

SC, I agree the publication re Corpus Christi is no longer on the LO website. It was called Celebrate and I think the one on Corpus Christi was one of a series perhaps aimed at enabling a deeper celebration of those feasts moved to a Sunday. I am sure that a request at the LO will rediscover the original if still available.
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