Va Pensiero

Psalm Project · Post by **Psalm Project** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:31 am

Just a curiosity...
Any choirs out there considering singing Verdi's 'Va Pensiero' 'Before, during or after' Fourth Sunday of Lent...
The psalm (O let my tongue cleave to my mouth) ties in!
A priest colleague of mine suggested it three years ago and it set my mind thinking... 'What if...'
Any comments?

festivaltrumpet · Post by **festivaltrumpet** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:36 am

Did not Tra le Sollecitudini make comment about exactly sort of thing in 1903?

Was not Verdi the theatrical style in vogue in the last century?

Psalm Project · Post by **Psalm Project** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Well, yes - but bearing in mind that Va Pensiero had certain inspiration drawn from Psalm 136, how bad might this piece be relative to other pieces of 'pop' culture we witness in some of our liturgies?
If we keep looking back with a condensated (new word!) periscope, we might lose sight of something that may have hidden value.
Adopting the notion that Verdi was more theatrical, we could banish Mozart for his lifestyle... then again, did he not get some papal citation for breaking the rules about the Allegri Miserere transcription - I digress! Actually - many early sacred works have powerful associations with secularity (secular tunes with sacred texts)

I am considering using the Verdi piece with my choir as a 'going out / recessional' piece - It will have a brief mention as to its context.
Being practical and reasonable - I feel happy to include this. Vatican II Documentation might indeed encourage this usage on the basis that it is 'spiritual' music.

How about this... I played for a wedding yesterday - it was a Neo-Catechumens group. As we ambled along to the various tunes accompanied on guitars... we arrived at the - - 'Gloria'... as if that was not enough to *beep* up my ears... we arrived at the ... ALLELUIA... priests were rocking to the beat, man!
Have I got this wrong... LENT has yet to arrive!!!!

I'd say Va Pensiero is a safer bet!

docmattc · Post by **docmattc** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:19 pm

Psalm Project wrote: how bad might this piece be relative to other pieces of 'pop' culture we witness in some of our liturgies?

I've never been convinced the "I know its wrong, but its not as wrong as wot some do" argument :wink:

I'm impressed you have a choir that can carry off this piece. How many of them are Hebrew slaves?

Playing devils advocate, if Verdi's setting, why not Boney M's? How about U2's setting of Psalm 40?
When can we judge the secular associations are watered down/forgotten enough to include it in liturgy? If I remember, Paul Inwood touched on this in the Crichton Lecture last year. I think he said that the Passion Chorale started life as a tune for something inappropriate to liturgical use.

musicus · Post by **musicus** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:54 pm

docmattc wrote:I'm impressed you have a choir that can carry off this piece. How many of them are Hebrew slaves?

ROTFLMA*O !!!

* alb

Psalm Project · Post by **Psalm Project** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:07 am

I'll report back after the 'event' - probably as a Hebrew slave!
It's not a particularly difficult piece (I won't play the usual big intro - something more 'sedate') - mostly unison with a venture into big chords doubled at the octave (Soprano / Tenor etc)... Our practice last Wednesday... man, you'd need to witness the gusto of the 'Arpa d'or / Golden harps when they sang it... it's sounding good - they are enjoying it and it has a definite 'wow' factor! So much for restraint in Lent!
Hmmm... :roll:

organist · Post by **organist** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:52 pm

It's great to sing and not that hard either. Don't forget it became an Italian Nationalist song!

Psalm Project · Post by **Psalm Project** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:10 am

Now, how could I forget that?... I'll just remind our congregation... " Oh, by the way - This next number..." the rest is history!
The power of association is a wicked thing! VIVA L'ITALIA!!!

organist · Post by **organist** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:28 pm

Of course you are doing the piece in Hebrew slave costumes with actions?

Psalm Project · Post by **Psalm Project** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:29 pm

Well, folks...
That fateful day arrived yesterday...
We sang Va Pensiero with great conviction and sensitivity!
It was pretty *beep* nice - even if I say so myself! We had many of the congregation gather near the gallery afterwards (not a usual occurrence) to express gratitude (for what, I am not sure!)
When we finished, there was a spontaneous applause... that, for me, was a bit awkward - HOWEVER... obviously a certain spirit was moved in people.
The piece was mentioned in our usual introductions immediately before mass and its context was briefly explained.
Well, I can only say that its inclusion was entirely appropriate and very much appreciated by all.
Not a mention of a cornetto anywhere!!!

organist · Post by **organist** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:44 pm

Psalm Project wrote:When we finished, there was a spontaneous applause... that, for me, was a bit awkward - HOWEVER... obviously a certain spirit was moved in people.
The piece was mentioned in our usual introductions immediately before mass and its context was briefly explained.
Well, I can only say that its inclusion was entirely appropriate and very much appreciated by all.
Not a mention of a cornetto anywhere!!!

Applause is a worry. Mind you people will clap anything in church these days?!

Glad it went well!

Society of Saint Gregory

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