Baptism of the Lord

[oopsorganist]

The good thing about the broadcast was that it got one of my parish quite excited. They felt they had heard a catholic service and recognised it as such. This bod was actually quite excited. A parishioner in her sixties from a minority group, she would have liked it even more something or other. She really was indentifying with it.
It was interesting listening to what can happen in other parishes and then of course, you compare what happens in yours.

Mr. Oops said "Cliff Richard" and "syrupy".

The bidding prayers were squirmy.
There was no balance between the instruments and voices.
Fr Tim sang really well and convincingly. Only good point.
It is awkward listening in on a parish Mass. It feels intrusive.

[Southern Comfort]

It is awkward listening in on a parish Mass. It feels intrusive.

This is the constant dilemma facing the broadcast worship producer: do you act as a fly on the wall, reproducing what actually happens in a service at the chosen location, or do you "produce" it, changing, adding, making it suitable for presentation to the general public according to your own particular ideas about what is "good radio" - or TV, come to that?

The wise producer will do the former, and will often need some guidance in what is good practice in worship and what the producer should be looking out for to highlight. Some tweaking will often be necessary, but not going outside the boundaries of the locale and its resources. The less wise producer will do the latter, resulting in a "product" which is artificial and doesn't reflect the reality of what takes place.

The thing about broadcast worship is that it needs to be authentic. Once you start down the road of an artificial production which makes good "entertainment", then you're in trouble. This is why so many of us have questioned what went on in this broadcast, because it was not true to life, because it came across musically as, at best, a spiritual concert, at worst a publicity venture for the "guest" musicians. It was not typical of the parish, and it was not typical of what happens in the majority of our churches. If this seems unduly damning, Nicholas Kenyon years ago, in the SSG Jubilee book English Catholic Worship, discussed those who use the liturgy as a peg on which to hang beautiful music. The present situation is no different: the liturgy was used as an excuse to showcase CJM as performers, IMHO, and information about Mike and Jo being selected first and then the parish being asked if they would "take them on" only serves to confirm this impression.

Finally, In answer to oops, when it's real then listening-in is not intrusive but life-giving. When it's unreal, however, we are embarrassed.

[VML]

Broadcast the real thing!
Producers should be persuaded to treat religious services with the same reverence they save for live snooker and football.

[Nick Baty]

Oh please, please don't!

[alan29]

Broadcast the real thing!
Producers should be persuaded to treat religious services with the same reverence they save for live snooker and football.

They could get John Motson to do the commentaries.
Alan

[VML]

What I mean is, I think we get the match as played rather than fiddled about with set pieces. And worship is like that too.
We want to see and hear it as it happens.

[Nick Baty]

We want to see and hear it as it happens.

Do we?
• The bum notes.
• The child crying throughout.
• People walking in late and click-clacking down the centre aisle?
"As it happens" is OK for taking part in. But not so good for listening to at home.

[VML]

Nick, I bow to your experience.

[musicus]

This is the constant dilemma facing the broadcast worship producer: do you act as a fly on the wall, reproducing what actually happens in a service at the chosen location, or do you "produce" it, changing, adding, making it suitable for presentation to the general public according to your own particular ideas about what is "good radio" - or TV, come to that?

[snip]

The thing about broadcast worship is that it needs to be authentic. Once you start down the road of an artificial production which makes good "entertainment", then you're in trouble.

I think this is spot on.

I am sure that authenticity - in a different sense - is also the key to the CD versus live music issue that we have been debating recently.

[johnquinn39]

Oh how cynical and negative can you all get. Reading some people's comments I fear that I should apologise for being an SSG member and a huge CJM fan.

All I can say in my defence is that some people may not like the style of music played by Boyce and Stanley but anyone who has attended the Lourdes services planned by them in conjunction with, among others, Fr Timothy, would know that the music is always there to support the rite and deepen our active participation and understanding of our faith.

I also would hazard a guess that it would be very difficult to stop Fr Timothy from having a say in the planning of the liturgy and I for one am really looking forward to the sermon as he never fails to deliver words through which it is impossible to read the newsletter or plan my working week.

For the record, St Thomas More does indeed have great music resources in the parish. In particular a music group who week in week out support a liturgy with a wide variety of hymn choices and a huge growing mass attendance every week. The mass has a two large children's liturgy liturgy groups every week, over ten altar servers most weeks and regular youth readers. In fact is quite a role model for me at least. The reason for mentioning this is the group have been supported and encouraged over the years by Mike and Jo and keep moving from strength to strength.

If you know you are not going to like something just because its CJM then perhaps it is better if you dont tune in - I for one will be hoping for inspiration, strength for my prayer life and really expect that this will be one occasion when
"the word that goes from my mouth does not return to me empty without carrying out my will and succeeding in what it was sent to do.’

Am I being cynical and negative?

Does it deepen our understanding of our faith, and inspire us when we sing:-

'[Christ] is here in bread and wine for me'

'There's still plenty of time'

'...power and greed change the creed leaving truth to decay'

Have young organists, cantors, choir members and composers been encouraged?

I like the CCM music style. However, there are many other styles - why exclude these?

[organist]

Well it certainly got you all involved! I only heard the end of it in the car and cringed at the Agnus Dei and Soul of my saviour. I usually listen to this broadcast and must say I am disappointed when there is no worship element. I also turn off if it is clearly going to be a "pop" version just as I zap through my recordings of Songs of Praise when the "pop star" bits arrive!

[keitha]

I was amazed at the reaction this mass engendered from so many sources (it has featured in several blogs, the SSG blog having the most reasoned debate!). I thought it might be of interest to have an 'insider's' comment (I was one of the accompanists).

I was told that the BBC are having increasing problems finding venues that can produce a 'parish' act of worship that is at all 'broadcastable' so the producers tend to play safe. They asked Joe Boyce and Mike Stanley to arrange a mass for them and left them to select the venue. I imagine they selected St Thomas More because they know Fr Timothy very well and have worked with him on many occasions and they are regular visitors to the church and were fairly confident that it would meet the needs of the BBC. For what it is worth, the production staff told me that they were very happy with the result, and that the broadcast was all that they had hoped for.

There have been comments about what was not included/what was. Timothy, Mike and Jo worked very hard to produce a meaningful, coherent liturgy that followed liturgical norms but did not exceed 37 minutes. Indeed, after the run-through on the Saturday (the only rehearsal), we had to cut nearly 5 minutes - and that was after 'O Lord my God, when I in awesome wonder' (which was to have been the final hymn) had been cut! Ironically, during the broadcast we were asked to reinstate some of the items that had been cut as we got ahead of the clock. The important thing to remember is that with 31 minutes allowed (allowing 6 minutes for the homily), hard choices have to be made. I would have had the psalm sung and cut/reduced something else, but Joe and Mike chose to do it another way. They were not 'wrong' - they simply exercised their choice in the way they thought best in difficult circumstances. I also think that Joe and Mike are to be congratulated on resisting the temptation of 'packing' the mass with their own music. To hint that they 'hijacked' the event is a little unfair - they were appointed to work to a brief, and fulfilled it. My recollection is that the only items that they had written were the intercessions/offertory song and the agnus 'day', with 'Soul of my Saviour' being mainly their arrangement

Mike and Joe played their guitars. The piano is a 7' Yamaha grand and the organ has 2 ranks, extended to 7 stops and has a single unenclosed manual. No other instruments were used. I was a little disappointed with the broadcast tone of the piano (some commentators thought it was an electronic keyboard!), but apart from that, the production team was very good to work with and did a great job (the technicians even managed to clear the church of lots of kit and several miles of cabling to enable us to get a very large congregation in the church in time for a fully sung mass at 11.00).

I have not really provided a criticism of the music, but (with the 'highjacking' exception) agree 100% with everything Mary R has said.

[johnquinn39]

I think that the 'agnus day' was by Matt Maher.

[mcb]

I think that the 'agnus day' was by Matt Maher.

You're right - here it is. You can hear the whole thing if you click on 'mp3' and then the icon under 'listen'. To my mind it works quite nicely as a solo song (barring that clumsy rhyme), but the rapid alternation between cantor and backing vocals makes it unconvincing as a piece for participation by the assembly.

[mcb]

P.S. Welcome to the forum, keitha! And thanks for those thoughts. No surprise that the noisier corners of the blogosphere had things to say about the broadcast, nor that this forum was the place to find measured discussion rather than name-calling.