Baptism of the Lord

[Nick Baty]

sounded like a good advertisement for the progressive end of liturgical music, and perhaps a role model for a struggling parish?

Except it wasn't very progressive. Terribly dull. There can't be a parish in the world which wouldn't benefit from something simple, tuneful and practical: perhaps Martin Barry's delicious Spring Sanctus.

[Reginald]

I may have this wrong as I only listened to the first half of Mass, and that in the car en route to Mass...but.

Am I not right in thinking that at the offertory a pop song was sung - as in a genuine, in the charts type, pop song? The second reading was cut, one assumes for reasons of time, and yet there was sufficient time for 'pray for a miracle'. Whatever one thinks of Stanley and Boyce I would have thought the more appropriate thing would be to save time by not singing the response to the General Intercessions and the Offertory song, rather than ditching sacred scripture.

I wonder if the Holy Father ever listened to the ipod S and B sent him?

[VML]

And where was the Psalm?

[Claire B]

Just listened on i-player. Couldn't hear the congregation singing, just the soloists and music group.

I'm reading 'Why Catholics can't sing' by Thomas Day, having borrowed it on Saturday. His first point is that no congregation likes to compete with the amplified music leader.

It could have been a lot worse (read the book). The jangling accompaniment could have been continuous. I went to see Graham Kendrick's new touring show before Christmas and the backing musicians maintained a driving rhythm throughout. Doesn't matter about the spiritual content of the lyrics (or prayers) when all that distraction is going on.

[Nick Baty]

I'm reading 'Why Catholics can't sing' by Thomas Day, having borrowed it on Saturday.

And it soon becomes obvious that Thomas Day knows little about liturgical music in general and nothing about British music at all. But he has a drum to bang, a tub to thumb. One of the most unpleasant books I've read.

[mcb]

There can't be a parish in the world which wouldn't benefit from something simple, tuneful and practical

Domo arigato gozaimasu, Nick. But the Sanctus they used was Liam Lawton's Mass of the Celtic Saints, which isn't a bad one. I've used the Gloria and Sanctus.

[Dot]

I listened to the service in the car and had to change waveband to avoid listening to "Soul of my Saviour," feeling almost embarrassed by it even though I was travelling alone. I was appalled at the words of the Agnus Dei - I thought the word "Dei" had even been shortened to "De" in order to rhyme with "away" (I suppose it could have been worse, and the "away" modified to "away-ee").

I don't mind an eclectic mix, but please can we keep each element of the mix authentic in style etc.

Dot

[VML]

It was the away De that really got me, that and the syrupy piano musak.
Did anyone see Dwight Longenecker"s bit in the Universe last week? He made the very sweeping statement that music in UK and US Catholic churches has a reputation for being awful and suggesting that the Church should be more willing to employ professional musicians. Do you think this is the professional style he means?

[SOP]

I cringed when I heard the Soul of My Saviour and certain that if I had been in the same room as the radio, it would have been turned off. The pace was different but it was the ad libbing that I found truly cringeworthy. I know at least one other person disagrees with me but I am cringing now just remembering it.

[MaryR]

I managed to just get in under the wire and listen to this broadcast on BBC iplayer before it disappeared and so I'm able to stick my tuppenceworth in. I was expecting it to be awful from everything that's been written here, but I was pleasantly surprised!

I know Fr. Tim's church well. In fact, because Coventry is so central, the Society's executive committee regularly meets there (and receives wonderful hospitality!). I know that the church has at least two choirs, and I gather that all were invited to be involved in the music making for this Mass. It seems clear from the parish newsletter that Boyce and Stanley were approached by the BBC and then approached St. Thomas More, rather than St. Thomas More being invited to host the broadcast and wheeling in external music directors.

As for the musical choices, I think you've all been a bit harsh! The entrance song reflected the feast and was well known, the Kyrie was fine, with a good cantor. I didn't go a bundle on the Gloria, but it was the words of the prayer. The Sanctus was fine, too. There are so many to choose from and I know several I like more, but Liam Lawton's is not bad. And, again, it used the words of the prayer.

As for the more controversial pieces, I tend to agree with others here. I didn't especially like the offertory song. It had a pop song feel and wasn't my thing but, if you're going to do something non-congregational and different, the offertory is the place to do it, in my view. I didn't like the Agnus Die either, for the all the reasons already expressed on this thread. However, I didn't feel the same loathing for the arrangement of Soul of My Saviour as some of you. It wasn't great, I admit. I'd have preferred it either minus syrupy piano accompaniment, or really funked up, like the version St. Patrick's Gospel Choir sang on the Daily Service that mcb mentioned. This fell between two stools for me, but at least it was something that people could join in with as they processed; I doubt anyone doesn't know the words by heart.

On the whole, leaving aside the Agnus Dei, I think this was good liturgy. Not great musically, but mostly perfectly reasonable. And it sounded as though there was some good congregational singing going on. Lots of young voices were audible too.

As for the cutting of the psalm and second reading, I agree that I'd have preferred that these were included and the offertory song omitted, but that would have been a production decision, completely out of the control of Fr. Tim. And, talking of Fr. Tim, I thought he spoke very well indeed.

A bit more than tuppenceworth!

[Southern Comfort]

I too listened, and I fear I am not as complimentary as Mary.

I thought the publicity puff for Mike and Jo in Fr Tim's intro after the Sign of the Cross was misplaced (it almost sounded as is they were the only people he was welcoming), and an indicator of what was to come - and indeed it was: a showcase for Jo and Mike, as I had predicted earlier in this thread.

I did not enjoy the fact that the guitars were not always in tune with the organ (e.g. the opening hymn) and more especially the piano. I hated the extra beat inserted into Taizé Kyrie I. I disliked the fact that the Mass of Creation Gloria was taken at a ploddingly slow tempo (that''s what happens when guitar strumming slows everything down: this piece should be one-in-a-bar, not three), that the choir verses were sung as a solo by Mike (who didn't quite have the range for it), and that his cantor technique obviously doesn't run to taking phrases in one breath (more on this below).

I did not applaud the "Come, O Lord" Spirit song that was used in place of the responsorial psalm, presumably because it had a refrain full of Alleluias and thus could double as the Gospel Acclamation. Nor the fact that the Holy, Christ has died and Doxology-Amen had no musical connection with each other and were in a descending series of keys (D - C - B flat) which tended to depress. Nor the padded text of the Amen (to fill out the music, which obviously came first): "we lift our hearts and voices to you as we sing.... so shall it be, for ever, Amen" etc.

I thought the first reader was boringly prosaic for such a prophetic piece of scripture, but the deacon (who should really have been introduced at the beginning as well, since he came back later in the intercessions) was quite good.

The homily was excellent, and so too was the prayerful pace at which Fr Tim took the Eucharistic Prayer (very easy for a priest to rush this due to nerves during a broadcast).

I did not enjoy the occasions when Jo Boyce sang out. She has essentially a pleasant voice, but when she puts on the volume, she can cut hard cheese at 500 paces.

I too cringed at the Lamb of God and Soul of my Saviour. The adjective I would use is "tasteless". And there was sheer bad technique, or the failure to realise that you just don't breathe in the middle of phrases, let alone words: because of the excruciatingly slow tempo, we had in verse 2 "So shall I ne- [breath] -ver, never part from thee", for example.

There was in fact no offertory song. What happened was that after the renewal of baptismal promises (a plus for that!), we had piano waffle underneath the deacon uttering a scripture passage, a lady reading an overlong intention for prayer, leading into a sung "V/ Lord, in your mercy, - R/ listen to our prayer." This happened twice only, I think (no wonder the intentions were long), after which the intercessions were in effect hijacked by an intro to personal prayer, followed by Jo Boyce improvising personalist intentions (all very worthy, of course) at great length over the chord sequence, interspersed with two V/ - R/ but altered so that the congregation could not join in. It was long and it was unnecessary and self-indulgent. When all this eventually ended, the piano waffe continued while Fr Tim gave a (good) theological introduction to the Eucharistic Prayer, followed immediately by "Pray, brothers and sisters...."

In other words, the extended intercessions setting took the place of a song during the presentation of the gifts. What irked me was the fact that the assembly were effectively shut out early on from what should be their prayer, and that this was done by two people who describe themselves as liturgists. The impression given was that the whole exercise was not much more than an opportunity for Jo to show off her evangelical-style improvisatory powers.

And therein lies the root reason why some us found parts of the broadcast cringe-making: there is a difference between the Catholic tradition and the evangelical Protestant tradition. The tasteless parts were, by and large, the evangelical-style offerings. They don't fit, and they make a lot of people uncomfortable. For me, one of the missions of the SSG lies precisely in helping people to find the right balance between heart and head, without tipping off the heart-end of the spectrum as happened at intervals throughout this broadcast. I'm very glad that there was no official SSG association with the broadcast - that would have been most embarrassing.

[MaryR]

I don't disagree with your comments, SC. I do think it could have been done differently, or better. But it wasn't terrible! They sang the right parts of the Mass and the congregation were included. I get what they did at the intercessons/offertory now; an experiment that didn't work, maybe? And the Agnus Dei was awful, but the rest of it wasn't so bad. That said, if I'd been asked to plan it, I'd have done it differently! But then so would many of us - differently from Jo and Mike, and differently from one another! This was supposed to be Sunday worship from a parish, albeit somewhat hijacked by Jo and Mike. It wasn't billed as a Master Class in how to do it. Had it been, then I'd have lots more to say! I suppose, given CJM Music's professional status, we were entitled to expect the musical arrangements to be better and so those criticisms are entirely fair.

The trouble with Sunday Worship is that it's meant to show parishes in their weekly act of worship, but it also needs to be good radio. I suppose the BBC think that by using the likes of CJM, the quality (as in 'performance') will be more assured, but it makes it less real for those of us working in parishes week in, week out. I'd have rather heard one (or both) of Fr. Tim's choirs, leading the music as they usually do, but I expect there'd have been just as many things for us to pick at. I've been wondering where I'd suggest the BBC go to find a Catholic church where the Sunday worship is a Master Class in good liturgy. If they came to my parish we could pick the right reader, choose the right music, have more than one practice for a change, and force our congregation to join in, but that wouldn't reflect our usual Sunday worship which is far more hit and miss than that. I rather suspect that what we heard from St. Thomas more didn't reflect their usual Sunday worship but then, if CJM hadn't chosen St. Thomas More, I don't suppose the BBC would have gone there at all!

As someone who lives in Birmingham Archdiocese, it does irritate me that CJM Music receives a seal of approval like no other. I don't think they're great liturgists, and Jo and Mike's music is mostly not to my taste, but there are many many people who love it, possibly because they don't have anything to compare it with. I'm not sure what we do about that.

[musicus]

As you might imagine, this thread is testing my powers of moderation somewhat, because it is tending to focus on named individuals. In so far as the thread is a detailed response to and critique of a specific broadcast event, I don't think we are doing any more than (say) The Tablet reviewing different channels' Christmas offerings, and, surely, any programme that the BBC might broadcast is fair game for comment. As long as we focus on the details of the liturgy and of the music (and not so much on the individuals) I think we're OK.

The problem (and here I speak from personal experience) is almost certainly down to the BBC. It would have been fascinating to have been a fly on the wall during some of the preliminary negotiations leading up to this broadcast. Thinking about it, the BBC would have been welcome at our Mass this morning: a good range of appropriate musical styles, all the 'bits' present and correct, good singing from youngest to oldest, not bad playing (though I say it myself), the readings and the bidding prayers read clearly and directly, a sermon about Christian Unity with a kick in it (the PP concluded with, "I'm going to send a copy of this to our local churches"), and an intangible sense of unity and purpose. No solos, nods to Radio 2 or other gimmicks though.

Like it or not, many people will tend to assume that a broadcast liturgy is good and worthy of imitation.

[Nick Baty]

It would have been fascinating to have been a fly on the wall during some of the preliminary negotiations leading up to this broadcast.

Having worked for the Religion and Ethics dept I can assure you that the BBC is not an arbiter of taste. My line manager once told me I had "a very low cheese threshold". But can you really imagine that meeting between the BBC and the parish: "Look, we really need the *beep* version of Soul of my Saviour you can manage. Yes, that's it, something that will make the listeners vomit." I doubt it.

[VML]

Mary said:

I'm not sure what we do about that!

What we do is raise the profile of what I have seen so far at SSG composers' meetings. Every meeting is different, but somehow there is a greater willingness to sing the Mass, and truly enhance the liturgy.
And we encourage well trained young musicians to absorb good practice for future reference. Does that make sense?
We had a Justice and Peace Mass today, which was overall very good, and there were a few new young people playing and singing, but.. It was the 'other' music group so we had the psalm spoken, directed by one of the music leaders, each side of the church to a verse as in morning and evening prayer; and the Peruvian Gloria.
And I am still irritated by the use of the Pax Christi/ or CAFOD / or Live simply Creed to replace the proper one. I don't know who decided it was suitable for use at Mass. To me it jars as much as the things in last week's broadcast. But it is not for me to make such decisions about what we profess. I thought that after serious deliberation the Council of Nicea did that.