Romana Guardini's great mistake

[johnquinn39]

'There could be no greater mistake than that of discarding the valuable elements in the spiritual life of the people for the sake of the liturgy...' - Romana Guardini's 'The spirit of the liturgy' (Chapter 1)

There is great devotion to the BVM, and the Blessed Sacrament in the RC Church. At my parish, we have (I think quite rightly) stopped singing devotional Marian and Benediction motets, hymns and antiphons during Mass.

However, this type of devotion has not been replaced by anything, leaving many unhappy and feeling that 'We have forgotten Our Lady', and wondering where the 'Communion hymns' (Sweet Sacrament Divine etc.) have got to.

We have tentatively piloted Sunday Evening Prayer (published by the Bishops of E&W a couple of years ago), and followed the recommendation that Marian devotions may proceed after the reposition of the Blessed Sacrament.

Initially we have used hymns like 'O Godhead hid' during benediction (along with the pslams and readings), and 'Hail Queen of Heaven' at the end. We are thinking, in the future, of maybe introducing 'Holy dwelling place of God' (Alstott).

What do other parishes do?
There is clearly a need for popular devotions.
How might this devolp in the future?

[alan29]

Not so sure there is such a call for these devotions. Is there really a clamour for devotions to the BVM? Or for benediction etc?
It is interesting that in the days of the latin liturgy, people did go to benediction/novenas etc. I wonder if it was because they were in English to varying extents. Since Vatican II, perhaps people find that the Mass suffices.
I was going to make a comment about British versus latin temperaments being reflected in devotional patterns. Then I remember our last holiday in Italy, where the taste police seem to have swept throught the churches, removing much of the worst of the statues etc.
Alan

[Southern Comfort]

One of Romana Guardini's mistakes was not to be born a woman - then his name would have been Romana. It's actually Romano.

[VML]

No Alan, I don't think it has anything to do with Latin etc, but lots to do with the fact that in the first sixty years of the last century there was no Sunday sport, hardly any afternoon TV, and no Sunday shopping!

[docmattc]

I was going to post earlier this afternoon but got distracted with a light fitting. In that time, VML has made exactly the point that I would have done.

We too do not sing Marian or Benediction hymns at Mass and occasionally their absence is commented on, exclusively by those over 70. We do have exposition on a Saturday morning culminating in Benediction, at which there is rarely anyone present. A group say the rosary and novena on a Wednesday evening before Mass and this is a curious gathering, almost an 'in group'. There is no encouragement for others to join, and no printed texts of the novena they're saying. If anyone wanted to join in, they couldn't unless they knew the texts beforehand. Almost like knowing the secret password before being admitted to the club.

A couple of years ago our parish decided to avoid communion services in the absence of a priest on weekdays, replacing it with morning prayer (actually a very odd simplification of this but that's irrelevant here). A couple of people were upset that they were 'being denied communion'. Interesting though that they had no problem with it not being Mass, as long as they received communion. I'm prepared to be proved wrong but I do think we have got into something of a mentality of 'unless-we-get-communion-its-not-worth-going" in addition to the fact that there are now so many demands on folk's time that we're lucky if they make Mass on Sunday every week.

[musicus]

I would be very interested to learn how many people typically attend your Sunday Evening Prayer, John.

(This is a very useful discussion, by the way.)

[Southern Comfort]

I would be very interested to learn how many people typically attend your Sunday Evening Prayer, John.

I'd hazard a guess at between 20 and 30, and would be very pleasantly surprised if it were more than this.

[Southern Comfort]

We too do not sing Marian or Benediction hymns at Mass and occasionally their absence is commented on, exclusively by those over 70. We do have exposition on a Saturday morning culminating in Benediction, at which there is rarely anyone present. A group say the rosary and novena on a Wednesday evening before Mass and this is a curious gathering, almost an 'in group'. There is no encouragement for others to join, and no printed texts of the novena they're saying. If anyone wanted to join in, they couldn't unless they knew the texts beforehand. Almost like knowing the secret password before being admitted to the club.

This echoes a lot of people's experience in parishes. "We're preserving the True Faith - the rest of you can take a running jump" is the message that come across loud and clear. If only they realised that they're attached to peripherals......

A couple of years ago our parish decided to avoid communion services in the absence of a priest on weekdays, replacing it with morning prayer (actually a very odd simplification of this but that's irrelevant here). A couple of people were upset that they were 'being denied communion'. Interesting though that they had no problem with it not being Mass, as long as they received communion. I'm prepared to be proved wrong but I do think we have got into something of a mentality of 'unless-we-get-communion-its-not-worth-going" in addition to the fact that there are now so many demands on folk's time that we're lucky if they make Mass on Sunday every week.

The whole question of "getting communion" has been exercising not only diocesan minds in recent times but also those of bishops' conferences, we are told, not to mention Rome itself (cf. Redemptionis Sacramentum 165-66). Once you divorce receiving Communion from the action of the Eucharist, you're in trouble.

[docmattc]

It is a pity we don't have more liturgies that aren't Mass, like wot we do at summer school. All too often I come across pieces of music which aren't appropriate for Mass, but would work really well in other liturgies.

Equally it means that we're loosing a good proportion of the repertoire that we used to have. Should we be worried that the current generation may grow up not knowing pieces like "Hail Queen of Heaven" or "Sweet Sacrament Divine"?

[alan29]

Grateful, more than worried. Just how long was the pause on "pray FOR..................... the sinner" meant to be? In our parish it always sounded somewhat drunken.
And I do believe Sweet Sacrament Divine has appeared in at least one non-catholic hymnal.
Alan

[docmattc]

The whole question of "getting communion" has been exercising not only diocesan minds in recent times but also those of bishops' conferences, we are told, not to mention Rome itself (cf. Redemptionis Sacramentum 165-66). Once you divorce receiving Communion from the action of the Eucharist, you're in trouble.

I know of a parish not far away which, a few years ago, had rosary, benediction and communion at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon. Whether this still happens I know not, but the communion bit of it always struck me as most odd. Attendance was usually in the teens numerically, but in the eighties age-wise.

[VML]

Even more odd if they were having Communion on a Sunday afternoon if there had been Mass in the morning. I'm pretty sure it is not permitted to have a separate Communion service on a day when there is also Mass.

[asb]

Even more odd if they were having Communion on a Sunday afternoon if there had been Mass in the morning. I'm pretty sure it is not permitted to have a separate Communion service on a day when there is also Mass.

It is certainly not permitted to receive at a Communion Service if one has received at Mass on the same day, but the reverse is permissible - ie one can receive at Mass if one has been to a Communion Service - and one can receive at 2 Masses in one day. (Viaticum is obviously an exception to this rule)

[contrabordun]

And I do believe Sweet Sacrament Divine has appeared in at least one non-catholic hymnal.

Yes, it's in Common Praise, the latest incarnation of Hymns Ancient and Modern (and a very good hymnal).
I've played it at a few Anglican Eucharists. It made quite a nice change to be able to play it with the written rhythm.

[Southern Comfort]

Even more odd if they were having Communion on a Sunday afternoon if there had been Mass in the morning. I'm pretty sure it is not permitted to have a separate Communion service on a day when there is also Mass.

Directory on Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest (Congregation for Divine Worship, 2 June 1988), para 22:

"It is imperative that the faithful be taught to see the substitutional character of these celebrations, which should not be regarded as the optimal solution to new difficulties nor as a surrender to mere convenience. Therefore a gathering or assembly of this kind can never be held on a Sunday in places where Mass has already been celebrated or is to be celebrated or was celebrated on the preceding Saturday evening, even if the Mass is celebrated in a different language. Nor is it right to have more than one assembly of this kind on any given Sunday."

Redemptionis Sacramentum says the same kind of thing about services on weekdays, and actively discourages them.