Nineteenth Sunday in Ordianry Time - Year <A>

[gwyn]

Although not mentioned in the Liturgy Planner, Sweet Sacrament Divine ticks a box or two in the appropriateness stakes for the 19th Sunday of Year <A>, in particular verse 3:

Sweet Sacrament of rest,
ark from the ocean's roar,
within thy shelter blest
soon may we reach the shore;
save us, for still the tempest raves,
save, lest we sink beneath the waves:
sweet Sacrament of rest.

Made for the job.

[johnquinn39]

I'm not sure about this one. Should we really be 'telling our tale of misery' at Mass?

[VML]

Why not? 'Cast your care upon the Lord, for you are his....'

[johnquinn39]

Is 'Sweet sacrament divine' a (communal) 'song of the heart's joy'?

[gwyn]

I'm not sure about this one. Should we really be 'telling our tale of misery' at Mass?

We'd best drop a few psalms then, and quite a few readings from the Old Testament prophets.
I'm sure the oppressed catholics in China and elsewhere who'd love to have the opportunity to tell their tales of misey before Our Blessed Lord in the Blessed Sacrament if only they could access the Mass, their clergy, their bishops or even their churches.

[johnquinn39]

I'm not sure about this one. Should we really be 'telling our tale of misery' at Mass?

We'd best drop a few psalms then, and quite a few readings from the Old Testament prophets.
I'm sure the oppressed catholics in China and elsewhere who'd love to have the opportunity to tell their tales of misey before Our Blessed Lord in the Blessed Sacrament if only they could access the Mass, their clergy, their bishops or even their churches.

We should never excise any Psalms or readings from the OT prophets, as these are the Word of God.
'Sweet sacrament divine' however, is the word of man, and is perhaps more of a benediction hymn.
The Word of God can be accessed without priests an churches.

[VML]

Word of God, --word of man ...hmm.. All hymns come into the second category don't they, and all homilies.
They are man's response to the Word of God, surely.

[docmattc]

This thread illustrates wonderfully the fact that when two musicians gather to suggest music, there are at least three opinions , and why many off us are wary of posting out hymn choices here.

The words that Gwyn highlights certainly complement next Sunday's Gospel. What I would also consider when weighing up the merits of this piece is the following guideline from "Celebrating the Mass"

Many traditional Eucharistic hymns were composed for Benediction of the Most Blessed Sacrament. They concentrate on adoration rather than on the action of communion and may not be appropriate as communion songs.

I will be using Margaret Rizza's chant "Calm me Lord" at communion next Sunday.
Awaits list of reasons why inappropriate...

[VML]

I know the quote from CTM, but there is surely a point in the Mass for adoration after reception, and yesterday we sang 'O Bread of heaven.' And it is attributed to St Alphonsus whose feast day/ sorry, memorial was Friday.

[johnquinn39]

I know the quote from CTM, but there is surely a point in the Mass for adoration after reception, and yesterday we sang 'O Bread of heaven.' And it is attributed to St Alphonsus whose feast day/ sorry, memorial was Friday.

Would the point for adoration be after Mass, e.g. the evening prayer/ eucharistic service published by the bishops a couple of years ago. Or even a benediction service immediately after Mass?

I think that Susan Breihl's 'Bread of life from heaven' is much better than the version by St Alphonsus (which surely was never intended for Mass).

[organist]

We sang "O make me love thee more and more" after communion on Saturday night at Westminster cathedral and it worked. But afterwards I thought "Aren't we adoring something we've all just eaten?"
It was an unusual Mass with a visiting priest who had interesting ideas about censing the altar and the gospel procession. The choir of Wellington cathedral appeared halfway though to sing Sanctus and Agnus Dei - they had been singing evensong at Westminster Abbey!

[musicus]

The choir of Wellington cathedral appeared halfway though to sing Sanctus and Agnus Dei - they had been singing evensong at Westminster Abbey!

I recall the liturgical principle that no-one should exercise more than one ministry at any one celebration, but what about exercising only one ministry at two simultaneous celebrations? Or doesn't Westminster Abbey count?

[asb]

The choir of Wellington cathedral appeared halfway though to sing Sanctus and Agnus Dei - they had been singing evensong at Westminster Abbey!

I recall the liturgical principle that no-one should exercise more than one ministry at any one celebration, but what about exercising only one ministry at two simultaneous celebrations? Or doesn't Westminster Abbey count?

Pardon my ignorance here, but does singing in the choir count as a "ministry"? I ask because 3 members of my choir are Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, and 3 are readers. And does Reading and acting as Psalmist count as 2 seperate ministries? Oh yes, and is acting as "Welcomer" a ministry?

[docmattc]

We're straying off topic here, but I would say that singing in the choir is on a par with the role of other musicians. Everyone would think it extremely odd if I left the organ bench to go and distribute Communion. Though it avoids the term 'ministry' for those of us who are merely laity, GIRM is reasonably clear about it:

Among the faithful, the schola cantorum or choir exercises its own liturgical role, ensuring that the parts proper to it, different types of chants, are properly carried out and fostering the active participation of the faithful through the singing. What is said about the choir also applies, in accordance with the relevant norms, to other musicians, especially the organist.

Ideally, the choir should lead the singing and others would take on the other duties required of them. In practice of course, there are those in the parish who will do things, and the vast majority who will let them. Overlap is going to happen.

Several of my choir (in fact come to think of it, most of my choir) are also Extraordinary Ministers and it annoys me intensely that we can have rehearsed something for weeks to sing during communion, and on the day half of the sopranos/all of the altos/the only bass present suddenly disappear to do something else instead. Somehow they don't see singing in the choir as equivalent to reading or EMoHC. Maybe its because its a corporate thing and "It won't matter if I'm not there, there are 15 others"
I'm also very uneasy when, as happens sometimes, all three of the (non-psalm) readers are in the choir - does this send a message that one can only proclaim the Word if one can sing?

I once mentioned this liturgical principle at a liturgy group meeting. The reply came back from one of the choir "Are you telling me I should be denied my right to give out communion?" There are so many things wrong with that answer that I've never had the courage to tackle it again

One Mass, one ministry is an ideal to aspire to, but we're certainly not there yet.

[gwyn]

Docmatic quoted

The reply came back from one of the choir "Are you telling me I should be denied my right to give out communion?"

Where do you begin, eh?