Girls and boys

[JW]

Musicus,

Looks like a new thread developing here - I agree with Organist that this is a vital topic:

Do single sex childrens choirs have a role in our churches and cathedrals?
Do trebles sound the same as sopranos and altos the same as contraltos?
If we have girl altar servers, is it right to reserve singing in our choirs to boys?
Should we ask the devoted pensioners who constitute our choirs week in week out to make way for a children's choir, most of whom will probably not be singing in 10 years' time?

For the record, I do not agree that boys (or men) should be singled out for special treatment anywhere in the liturgy, just as I am uncomfortable with positive discrimination in other spheres... but I suspect that the SSG would prefer to stay away from discussing those consequences, so that we stay in line with Church teaching.

[musicus]

I have split this off as a new topic. Please avoid any ad hominem flaming - any such posts will be removed. (Please see the Forum Rules, especially points 1 and 8.)

Thank you.

[Southern Comfort]

I wonder if Musicus has now found the two posts he split off to form the new thread? My recollection is that there was some very interesting stuff there. Don't recall any flaming, simply disagreement as to whether forming boys' choirs was the best way to promote the singing of the assembly.

[Claire B]

I don't often submit posts, and I did find the thought of using music funding exclusively with boys rather weird. In the ideal world our schools would teach all children to read and sing music. But they don't. And many choirs learn their lines by rote.

I feel as though I'm struggling when I'm in a congregation and all I have is a group of singers to follow, don't know where my voice is meant to go next. I've just joined a local anglican choir and the joy of singing evensong with 'proper' music, well, you can imagine.

Many years ago, when I was at school, we were given a hymnal with the melody line printed for every hymn. HON prints bits of music in the words version, but no hymn melodies.

Will both girls and boys choirs in Hudderfield be taught to read music (at the same time they learn to use their voices)? at our local 'Young Musicians' the singing groups also sing without music, music is reserved for instrumentalists.

Maybe reading music should be the focus of music initiatives, whose objective I would hope to be to encourage music within the liturgy.

[Alan]

I don't often submit posts, and I did find the thought of using music funding exclusively with boys rather weird. In the ideal world our schools would teach all children to read and sing music. But they don't. And many choirs learn their lines by rote.

I feel as though I'm struggling when I'm in a congregation and all I have is a group of singers to follow, don't know where my voice is meant to go next. I've just joined a local anglican choir and the joy of singing evensong with 'proper' music, well, you can imagine.

Many years ago, when I was at school, we were given a hymnal with the melody line printed for every hymn. HON prints bits of music in the words version, but no hymn melodies.

Will both girls and boys choirs in Hudderfield be taught to read music (at the same time they learn to use their voices)? at our local 'Young Musicians' the singing groups also sing without music, music is reserved for instrumentalists.

Maybe reading music should be the focus of music initiatives, whose objective I would hope to be to encourage music within the liturgy.

Take heart, Claire: there are indeed musical initiatives with a focus on singing. The Government's Music Manifesto has led to Sing Up, the National Singing Programme, led by Howard Goodall, and this is already making a difference. Why not visit the site and see if anything is going on in your area?

In my experience, funding boys' singing initiatives has not been weird at all, but very effective. In my job as county music adviser for Worcestershire, I used often to encounter choirs in mixed schools that had no boys in them - primary schools as well as secondary. One of our middle schools tackled this situation by establishing a second choir, for boys only. The results - musical and numerical - were astonishing. After only a term, this boys' choir shared a public platform at the local arts centre with a visiting (all adult male) vocal ensemble and impressed everyone with their quality and commitment. Other schools have taken encouragement from this school's example (which we have showcased at county arts festivals). Another significant local initiative for our schools has been Singworks. Again, take a look and take encouragement. A final example: Sing Up now manages the Chorister Outreach Programme. Last year in Worcestershire, the (Anglican) Cathedral's Director of Music and some choristers visited local primary schools, where they sung to and with the school children. Towards the end of the year, all the children visited the Cathedral and sang together. This was a very effective use of the Cathedral DOM's expertise and of the example of his choristers. In another aspect of this initiative, the Cathedral now runs two open-access children's choirs on Saturday morning, a boys' and a girls', and they are flourishing. Children love to sing; all we have to do is provide the opportunities and the right conditions. There is more I could tell you - including links to the world of adult choirs, and keeping children singing - but this post is long enough.

Now, I don't suppose for one moment that Worcestershire is much different from any other local authority, and other good people could post on here about worthwhile initiatives in their part of the country. But I wanted to point out that it is not all doom and gloom. Good teachers have always recognised the value of music and singing in their schools, but it had been allowed to wane. Well, now there are some fresh shoots appearing.

[Claire B]

Thanks for the links. I've checked them out and sadly there's nothing for me/my girls there. They both play instruments; just finished sitting with Hazel while she practised bassoon.

One thought; do the boys feel put off once their voices break by needing to sing bass clef? As a pianist, it's what I learned from the start, but for both girls it's like learning another language, with translation to the more familiar treble clef happening. It is fascinating watching children encounter things we take for granted.

The local Local Authority initiative is called 'Wider Opportunities and is focussed on providing a first experience of a musical instrument.

[Alan]

In mixed-sex schools the boys are put off long before they encounter the bass clef. It's a cultural thing: "boys don't sing... it's wussy... etc etc". This has never been much of a problem in single-sex schools: when I was at (non-denominational) grammar school in the 60s, our school had a very fine choir that sang Vittoria, Palestrina, Handel, madrigals, etc, as well as the latest things from the pens of Britten, Tippett, Mathias and so forth. These days, as the arts are enjoying a much higher profile in education, music is being seen as much more cool. Several of our local secondary schools (including one of our three Catholic ones) are specialist status performing arts colleges, where participation in the arts is part of the culture and where those who do take part or take a lead are very much respected by their peers.

It's less of a problem in 'popular' genres than in 'classical' ones. Our county Pop Icons (solo vocalists) event attracts boys and girls in equal numbers. Our Battle of the Bands (rock) is rather male-heavy. Our Young Musician competition ('classical' vocal and instrumental) is very heavily biased towards girls.

You mention Wider Opportunities. This too is a national initiative, arising out of the Music Manifesto. It is being implemented with varying degrees of success around the country, but it is intended to encompass singing as well as playing.

I realise that none of this directly relates to the liturgy, but it is surely from the schools that our parishes must attract young singers and instrumentalists.

Finally, a new version of the key stage 3 (age 11-14) music curriculum becomes law in September. Those of us who have studied it have been much encouraged; I recommend the Forum to take a look too.