What do you do with a PP who.....

[Andrew]

Thanks to Presbyter for the idea!

Here are the starters;

What do you do with a PP who.....

1) Allowed the Sanctuary to be repainted "municipal baths blue", without consultation, so that the green hangings and vestments clash horribly, red and purple look garish, white looks dirty in artificial light, and assumes a blue tinge in daylight? And then says "it doesn't matter"

2) On the basis of his "rubrical" (?) right to intone "Gloria in excelsis deo" (ok in De Angelis) then insists on doing so in every English setting (which he can't) resulting in things falling apart?

3) Starts one Gloria when the organist is playing another, calles a halt, and tells everyone that the organist put the wrong one on the list - a carbon copy of the organist's list! - when in fact he later admitted privately to the MC that he hadn't even looked at the list; but leaves the congregation with the impression that it was the organist's fault - result: 10 weeks later some of the congregation still aren't speaking to the organist "because he made Monsignor go wrong".

4) Says that it doesn't matter if things are not done correctly, because "the average person in the pew hasn't got access to the relevant documents, and what they don't know won't hurt them"?

5) Turns a blind eye to the fact that a key member of the choir has not been to Mass for 12 weeks on account of these and other
issues, which she has put to the PP in a letter, but to which no satisfactory reply has been received to date?

[Benevenio]

When Chris Walker was asked what to do about a trouble some priest, he turned and asked the questioner "How long have you worked in the parish with this priest?" To the answer "5 long years", he replied "The Israelites were in the wilderness for 40, so you have some way to go!"

[presbyter]

I remember the late Mgr J D Crichton who, when asked what might be done with a certain PP, in wry and laconic wit simply said, "Sometimes one has to allow death to take its course".

[Tsume Tsuyu]

When I hear some of these horror stories about PPs and musicians, it makes me all the more appreciative of our own PP who seems to have either decided that we know what we are doing, or at least to have recognised that we are striving to do it right, and trusts us to get on with it.

TT

[Merseysider]

You have to be mates with your PP.

If you can't have the odd pint together, occasionally invite each other for a meal, sit down and have a friendly chat/debate then you really aren't going to get anywhere. (Is this easier for bloke musicians than for women? – And is it easier if the PP's around your own age?)

And if you're PP isn't up for building a good working relationship then I'd find another parish before you lose your sanity.

Perhaps I'm just lucky – my PP and I don't always see eye-to-eye – he wants a new Holy in the repertoire, I say the congregation aren't ready for it yet, together we thrash out what we like against what we know to work. We do have the same aims and objectives even if we don't have the same methods. And when Sunday Mass starts we both know what we're doing. And we're both happy to admit (over a pint, of course), "Hm! That didn't work, how can we make it better next time".

[gwyn]

Merseysider wrote:

"And if you're PP isn't up for building a good working relationship then I'd find another parish before you lose your sanity."

Absolutleigh!

In fact this was the advice given to those who entered the SSG: Composers Competition - if your abilities aren't appreciated, then find a parish where they will be.

As Merseysider says though, good working relationships don't just happen, they have to be worked at to establish and maintain.

[Andrew]

You have to be mates with your PP.

".

All very well, and I have worked on this basis in the past (previous PP used to turn up on the doorstep regularly with a bottle - even at 2.30 am on Christmas Day! but, to add another thread to topic title "What do you do with a PP who....." ".....lives in an ivory tower, basks in the title of Monsignor, by which title he has to be addressed by even his non-Catholic dentist, and, hard to believe I know, but true....his own brother?!?!?" Pint? He'd need a suitably engraved tankard!

[Benevenio]

Hmm...

My aunt - a nun - is regularly called 'Sister' by her family. It is an affectionate in-joke, and one she reciprocates when with her two sisters who she also addresses as 'Sister'. So perhaps the thing with his brother is as much a family jest as anything else. Still, sounds like your man is in cloud-cuckoo land! Probably nothing can change him - only if he decides the game is no longer worth playing: you cannot "cure" an alcoholic unless they admit to themselves there is a problem, I am told.

You could try quoting scripture, I suppose [bible]Matthew 23:1-12[/bible] perhaps... especially the last two or three verses... but it won't get you anywhere and, no doubt, you will be told not to quote scripture out of context too!

Personally, I have never yet attributed any title to the man either when talking to a priest or when talking to someone else about a priest. I call them by their Christian name, and seem to get away with it - even when bumping into the new Archbishop of Southwark the other day and, caught on the hop and a little confused (situation normal), I called him plain 'Kevin'. He never batted an eyelid and we had a perfectly normal conversation. Well, if you cannot call a Christian by his/her name and get away with it, then there is something wrong, I suspect!

[Merseysider]

OK – picture it!

For 20 years, my present parish sang a couple of hymns a week. I joined them on the 1st Sunday Lent. Now they sing a Sanctus (and a second one being introduced in a fortnight), Acclamation, Amen, Communion Songs etc – they are doing well but we have to go slowly. Having said that, we got through the Triduum in a way they can be seriously proud of.

PP and I get on fine – he and I are bursting with stuff we'd love them to sing but slowly, slowly catchee monkey and all that. Apart from which, we have two or three big parish celebrations coming up and repertoire for the occasion is being implanted in the regular Sunday Mass so, come the day, everyone will be able to sing with gusto – brass ensemble and string quartet already booked! We'll be starting a new Holy in a couple of weeks – introducing a new Agnus for First Communions etc.


Now PP is in hospital and we'll be without him for nearly two months in all.

Stand-in priest complaining I don't know enough music (as I type this I'm looking at shelves groaning under the weight of just about every piece written in the last 30 years and which I'm longing to use).

Tonight he announced that he will be introducing music from the Caribbean over the next two or three weeks. Congregation and choir looked at me. I could only shrug.

Nothing against the music – but he'll wreck a lot of careful planning – perhaps I'm being hypersensitive but I'm a tad miffed. Why should a priest be able to come in for a few weeks and change everything we are trying to achieve.

Forget earlier postings about making friends with your priest – I want to strangle this one.

[Andrew]

Would "patricide" be the term for murdering this type of Father (as opposed to a parental father)? On 2nd thoughts, culpable homicide!

[Martin Hall]

before you lose your sanity . . .

I wonder if Merseysider has considered his sanctity as well . . .

[gwyn]

Merseysider wrote:

Stand-in priest complaining I don't know enough music (as I type this I'm looking at shelves groaning under the weight of just about every piece written in the last 30 years and which I'm longing to use).

Wheel out all the stuff that you were hoping to introduce gradually. Your strategy of drip-feeding new music would've been fine when you had a cooperative P.P., but here you need to fight fire with celestial fire.

[Merseysider]

Is Martin Hall referring to priest's sanctity or mine?

[Tsume Tsuyu]

....but here you need to fight fire with celestial fire.

Well, that's one option, Merseysider. And I must admit, if I were you, I'd be very tempted to adopt the "I'll show you" approach and sing everything that moves during mass, using new songs and new settings.

On the other hand, he is there for how long? Two months maybe. Whilst what he is doing may not fit in with your long term plan, I'm sure your congregation know he is only temporary and that, when he's gone, things will get back to 'normal'. I don't think your good work will be undone. I agree that it's frustrating that your careful plan to introduce music for the various upcoming occasions is thwarted. In this respect, you would be perfectly justified in trying to 'do a deal' - some Caribbean as long as you can keep in the stuff you are trying to introduce for the First Communions etc. Have you tried for a compromise?

Alternatively, the Caribbean may go down a treat with your congregation and you could use that for your big occasions! Stranger things have happened....

Hope you manage to get it sorted.

TT

[Merseysider]

Well I promised the PP I'd stick to what we were trying to do.

The visitor's enthusiasm really shone through today.

A group of cantors led Bernie Farrell's "Unless A Grain of Wheat". Assembly sang refrain and my five lovely ladies (who had never sung anything like this before) sang the verses. They did brilliantly – no doubt about that. Starting towards end of communion procession, they managed to create that lovely post-communion silence, so difficult to achieve on a Sunday morning with young families, children etc. There it was – a beautiful contemplative moment – but short because....

Priest jumped to his feet and shouted, "Weren't they fantastic! Give 'em a round of applause". I could have wept!