Liturgical HON

[oopsorganist]

Thanks for all comments. It is really useful to get this discussion. And to let off steam.

[presbyter]

So

I thought there were a range of constitutions for parish councils which can vary the power and influence of a Parish Council from advisory to total financial control.... .

Please do not confusion us with the C of E

We do not have Parish Councils - we have Parish Pastoral Councils

We do not have Parish Finance Committees which exercise total financial control. PFCs are only advisory.

[oopsorganist]

Oh Presbyter

why do wait till now to tell me that? I am not sure I believe you anyway! Because if it is true, why do our parish council exercise so much power?

It was just what I was told when I questioned something they did a few years ago, by someone who would know what goes off in our Diocese. Or may be he was just confused too.

Anyway, you would not confuse our parish with C of E. Our neighbouring C of E parishes have lots more about them than we do. One has at least two music teachers, (proper good piano teachers), and a really good music group with everything, an amateur dramatic society which produces panto and musicals, a vicar who chats to old ladies in the park, t'other has a big Peace and Justice out look, cares and campaigns for asylum seekers, actively promotes Fair Trade, lives next door to a famous community theatre group, both have a church hall, a graveyard, a bell tower with bells, facilities for making drinks, fund raising events, middle class church goers and a long history of being in the area. Oh, and they sing. And have brownies and cubs. They might even sing in Latin for all I know. They might even have choirs. Oh, and an absolutely stunning High School with a right good music department, top of the League Tables and everything.

We have, more bums on seats. And something else, which if they have, is not believed in and defined in quite the same way. And an elderly and overworked priest.

So to update you. I stuck to HON this morning for fear of being nagged by Alan. So that gave me only the Gloria 162. Four standard love-able hymns because I thought there was a baptism during the service, but there was not, there was a second collection for floods in Uganda. Which I did not know about. And German Holy Holy which we have now done for four weeks with the music guitar group at front or unaccompanied ( hope it is allowed for me to play music for this from Laudate if I don't have the hymn books, Alan?) and also the Lamb of God we learned on Thursday from the old Celebration Hymnal (Gordon Rock). So putting in place some I hope better music that 664 ad nauseum. Ha!

We had a great silence as Father waited for me to play 664 Kyrie, the organ only for the Gloria! (No one sang) A good In bread we bring you Lord, more organ only for the Holy Holy...... I had to sing it myself although all these years I have desperately tried to avoid the situation where I have to sing in public...... so I gave up, came down the stairs and led the singing for the Lamb of God. Bread for the World during Communion to comfort me more than anything else, More silence for the new hymn during Communion. Pooh. Then Father sang "O Sacrament Most Holy" cos he always does, then a collection with no music, then a really big sing at "Go the Mass is ended". My best bet is to sing this same format for two years. Then they might join in. Or stop playing the organ and just stand at the front and lead some singing. But I really really do not want to do this. It would work, but I do not want to sing in front of other adults. Bang. That is the sound of me banging my head on a brick wall.

[oopsorganist]

Right I've calmed down a bit. It doesn't matter if the music is a shambles. I'm sure everyone got out of the Mass what they needed.

So here is an idea. Over to you Alan and R.

Music in the public domain. Or a freebie from each of the many composers around. For poorer parishes you see? A photocopiable Liturgical Planner. Or something on the internet. Possibly not Latin. I could not pronounce anything in Latin and our parish priest won't do anything in Latin. He even stops me from doing the Missa D'Angelis. (I'm not surprised Solesmes et al do not exercise copy right. In my opinion they ought to pay people to chant that stuff. Just a view, mine own).

But I am sat photocopying stuff for school. Legally. So why not do some compiling instead of composing for a while. A copy right free resource would sell and make money. For the Society if no one else. Then our parish would not need £1000. Keep it simple. I had a lovely email from Cille Choirill by the way. I would not get anything for school which was not photocopiable, such is the needs of poverty.

I got so stuck this morning because the clapping Gloria is in CFE and I felt guilty about printing out the words...... but we have sang this very successfully and joyfully for the last four weeks with good participation. Remember I have 87 HON and 67 CFE. And that is all I have. There were up of 130 at Mass. Any which way you look at in I am on a loser with this situation. Without the fact that many people have not worked out that if it says 664 on the board then this will be sang up to four times, different bitsies. Dear me.

[Peter]

Meanwhile I don't know week on week what to do..... neither hymn book is enough for the congregation, and sheets are not legal.

Duplicated sheets get round the problem of which hymn-book to choose and they can be perfectly legal, provided that either (a) the material you are copying is in the public domain (i.e. the author died more than 70 years ago, so it's out of copyright), or (b) you have specific permission from the copyright holder to use it, or (c) it is covered by a copyright licence to which your church subscribes. My church subscribes to the licensing schemes below - they cover different repertoires, so one is not enough for us. They operate in slightly different ways but the general principle is the same: you pay them an annual subscription and tell them what you've copied; they then pay royalties to the copyright owners.

Christian Copyright Licensing International (http://www.ccli.co.uk) operate among others the Church Copyright Licence (CCL), which allows you to reproduce text, and Music Reproduction Licence (MRL), which allows you not only to copy music but to photocopy out of certain specified books. They ask you to report each year what you've copied but not how often you've used it. The material covered includes things published by Kevin Mayhew (i.e. things for which they own the copyright, not collections in toto like HON), Oxford University Press, Stainer and Bell and Jubilate Hymns among many others; composers covered include Graham Kendrick, Margaret Rizza, Fred Kaan, the Iona Community and Michael Forster (of Themesongs fame; see earlier postings on this thread).

The Calamus licence is issued by Decani Music, publishers of Laudate among other things (I have no web address but you can write to them at 70 High Street, Brandon, Suffolk IP27 0AU or ring 01842 819830) and allows you to reproduce (but not photocopy) words, melody lines and in the case of Taizé chants basic harmonies. They like quarterly reports specifying how often each item has been used. Publishers covered include Decani, Taizé, The Grail (useful for psalms!), GIA, OCP, St Thomas More Centre and McCrimmon; authors and composers covered include Paul Inwood, Bernadette Farrell, Christopher Walker, Bob Hurd, Patrick Lee and Marty Haugen - not to mention several of our own SSG composers!

These are particularly useful if you create service sheets each week, as was recommended earlier in the thread, so you could do without congregational hymn-books altogether and give the people everything they need on one sheet without the need to shuffle hymn-books. You even create DIY hymn-books but these would remain legitimate only as long as your licences are paid and you would still need to report usage as normal (including number of times used to Calamus).

The reporting arrangements may sound awfully complicated but if you are organised they are not. CCLI provide their own software for their annual reporting; for Calamus I maintain records of usage on an Excel spreadsheet, which generates the reports for me.

Oops, your biggest problem may be persuading the powers-that-be in your parish to subscribe to these but they would enable you to provide the people with the sort of hymns that they want and that are appropriate to the readings of the day, not what happens to be in whatever book they've got. I don't go along with the calls earlier in the thread for a restricted lowest-common-denominator repertoire across the deanery: every congregation is different and your job is to provide your congregation with the hymns that will best enable them to participate "fully, consciously and actively" in the Mass and get the most out of it. I wish you luck!

BTW, I'm intrigued to know - why they were they so against Laudate and so in favour of LHON in the first place?

[Peter]

A photocopiable Liturgical Planner.

.....

I got so stuck this morning because the clapping Gloria is in CFE and I felt guilty about printing out the words......

Decani publish a Liturgy Planner, which you can get for a reduced rate if you subscribe to Calamus (see previous posting). The Clapping Gloria is covered by CCL, if you're interested!

[oopsorganist]

thanks Peter

Someone else in the Diocese suggested Lit HON to Father because they think it is simpler to use than Laudate and would meet our needs. This is probably right, but I have just got bitten by some of the hymns in Laudate and want to go for it...........it is the cheapest hymn book to buy, if we want to be more core then I am hoping it is the right way to go. He just went for a second opinion. And I have to do what he wants. He is the boss. He likes it modern up beat and interactive. He's young at heart. His favourite hymn is I the Lord of Sea and Sky and he would up it up at the end of every Mass if he could, that and Give me Joy in my Heart for the Entrance. Bless him.

It is the Parish Council who have now rejected it, I don't know why and I may never know why..... but I suspect it goes "Well this one is the one we use for the Vigil Mass and no one has any complaints about it. We are fed up with Oops and all the new stuff she keeps trying to do that falls flat on its face, like that Gloria she insists on doing and the Holy Holy...... what is wrong with 664 anyway.. bah, humbug. They won't want the Liturgical one anyway. What they want if for me to go away and let them sing miserable "I " songs to an empty church. With lemons in their mouths. They want locking in a cupboard with the Leeds Catholic Hymnal.

I will copy your info for Father. Probably the best solution. Thanks

[Peter]

His favourite hymn is I the Lord of Sea and Sky and he would up it up at the end of every Mass if he could, that and Give me Joy in my Heart for the Entrance. Bless him.

They are both in Laudate - 865 and 722 respectively. 865 is covered by Calamus and 722 (at least the words and melody) are "traditional" and so public domain!

What is the dreaded 664 everyone is moaning about? Must be in a book I haven't got.

[mcb]

Our neighbouring C of E parishes have lots more about them than we do.

One thing your parish has got that no other has is you, Oops. They're lucky to have you, even if too many of them can't see it. Keep up the good things you do, and who knows when or how they will bear fruit. Not soon, and not with gratitude, I expect; but I guess that's how the Holy Spirit uses us.

M.

[oopsorganist]

Oh, thanks mcb, the Holy Spirit sure must have it in for me, she must do!

Peter, are you my Peter form S S? 664 is Hon Hopwood Mass which is OK but paraphrases and after the first million years gets a bit depressing.

The Kyrei (can't remember how to spell it ) is "Father of all have mercy on us" x three and more, then Saviour of all etc, then Spirit of all etc.

Anyway, the good news is, I have got permission from Peter Rose to use his Celtic type folkie Mass setting, which is quite sweet and singable and to photocopy the same. Must keep his name and copy right on it. It may take a while to get it going. ( 2009?) With a little donation to Cille Choirill to help them out. I'd better go and learn it if I have to teach it to others.

Bye.

[Peter]

Peter, are you my Peter form S S? 664 is Hon Hopwood Mass which is OK but paraphrases and after the first million years gets a bit depressing.

The Kyrei (can't remember how to spell it ) is "Father of all have mercy on us" x three and more, then Saviour of all etc, then Spirit of all etc.

Oh, that 664! I'd seen it in HON but hadn't given it enough thought to notice there were Sanctus and Agnus Dei words to it as well. I've never used it and have no plans to do so - I can see that it could get wearisome after a while. At least it's not 666 in the same book, which rather negates the popular impression that the devil gets all the best tunes!

Yes, I do go to Summer School but don't remember meeting anyone called Oops there!

Anyway, it's good to hear that you've found a better Sanctus and I wish you luck with it. I could offer you another one if you like: if your priest goes in for jolly things he might like it, though my former PP found it too trivial. On the other hand, your lemon-sucking parishioners would almost certainly hate it!

[oopsorganist]

I'll bump this up so people don't go making a fuss about the fuss thread.


Ho hum, the Chair is off the Spain for 9 weeks, coming back for Christmas and then off the Spain for another 9 weeks. No wonder the parish is struggling. This could be a good time to campaign for hymn books. When I find out the reason why we can't have them, I will start doing.......

There was a big baptism this morning. After Mass. So I could not speak to Father about it. I wonder why he dips after Mass? Then there was a surprise second collection. For CAFOD. I wish I knew what was happening. It makes planning the music so much fun when you are in the dark. No one mentioned LIVE SIMPLY. Ah well, there you go.

So it was another HON week. One between two of course. Hope that is legal. Gloria 162. Very jolly.

I have got Decani to send the bill for a Calamus license to the parish council. Just to make a point.

[oopsorganist]

I think they have got the Calamus bill!

Father has told someone that we will get the hymn books and take a collection to pay for them. His assistant has written down this morning what we want, (Laudate) ...

but then, after Mass, he told me that he has managed to secure 50 second hand copies of CFE. He also said that he appealed for Benedictus whatever that is.

So this morning we used CFE and because I played from HON, we all sang different words. Chaos.

At least I won't have to resort to plan g, which was stealing our own hymn books until crisis was reached.

I still don't know which to plan from for next week.

[oopsorganist]

John Ainslie's thread reminds me to post.....

......we are now using CFE, PP found another 50 somewhere in the Presbytery ( the ones he held back because they did not have dedication plates yet ) and he has negotiated another 30 by swapping a Latin Missal for them. Apparently. So we now have 117 copies which is enough, and 30 more somewhere in the world. But they are the older ones not the latest print edition ( think they were bought as remainders anyway). Tis a shame I started planning Advent and Christmas from Laudate. But anyway, crisis over and we can sing Christ be Our Light and Be Still for the Presence of the Lord whenever we like.