Peace

[organist]

Interesting to return to a church where you used to worship isn't it? This evening because of my trip/fall earlier in the week I went to our local parish church. They have a magnificent new marble altar which is great except that the base of it is a classical pediment! The parish priest bless him is Ghanaian and talks far too quickly to be understood - half the homily and the notices were incomprehensible.
But the real reason for this gripe is the Peace. At this point like his predecessor the priest leaves the altar and goes the length of the church greeting those nearest to the centre aisle. This takes some time (in silence) and those not on the central aisle don't shake hands with him but do a vague sort of wave! So by trying to be inclusive some people get excluded. The logical response to this behaviour would be for everyone to walk around the church but of course we only greeted those nearest to us. In some churches the peace goes on for ages as people do just that! It always concerns me if choir and servers greet each other and not the people near them. It becomes very them and us. Any views?

[Sonoqui]

But the real reason for this gripe is the Peace. At this point like his predecessor the priest leaves the altar and goes the length of the church greeting those nearest to the centre aisle.............. The logical response to this behaviour would be for everyone to walk around the church but of course we only greeted those nearest to us. In some churches the peace goes on for ages as people do just that!

I have always thought (don't know why) that, except in dire emergency (fire, heart attack?) the priest was not supposed to leave the Sanctuary once Mass has started. May be wrong - I usually am.

In our church, the PP exchanges the sign of peace with the servers and the Eucharistic Minister. The congregation varies in its behaviour. Some sections of it almost clamber over the pews in order to shake hands with as many people as possible and wave to those they can't reach - I've even had a kiss blown at me by someone I didn't (and don't want to) know!

I tend to limit my exchanges to those either side/in front of me (I sit in the back row so there's no one behind me). In the rare event that there is someone sitting across the aisle with no one else near them then I will cross the divide.

[VML]

I thought that quite recently it was restated that the priest should not leave the sanctuary except for such occasions as funerals or weddings when the family could be greeted. Our deacon leaves the altar and shakes hand with everyone at a Eucharistic Service, which I find rather OTT, but at Mass PP now stays on altar and people don't wander too far.

[docmattc]

I have always thought (don't know why) that, except in dire emergency (fire, heart attack?) the priest was not supposed to leave the Sanctuary once Mass has started. May be wrong - I usually am.

I think this is the case too, Redemptionis Sacramentum certainly implies this:

“The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”.

I've understood that the reason is so as not to leave the Blessed Sacrament unattended lest someone leap up and steal it in his absence. But does RS above imply that 'some few of the faithful' should go up to him if he wishes to extend them the sign of peace? How do they know he wishes this?

The other reason I've read ( is that unlike in former times the priest isn't the sole minister of peace. It used to be (did it?) the priest kissed the altar (symbol of Christ) to receive Christ's peace, then passed it on to the deacon who passed it on... in a trickle down manner. Now it is understood that we all express our ecclesial communion and mutual charity for each other. As CTM says, "It is not transmitted in sequence, as it were from a single source." an impression which a priest coming down the end of each row as Organist describes could easily convey.

There is a problem of course if he's on his own on the sanctuary with no ministers around him to give the sign of peace. Is it better for the priest to stand there on his own and watch everyone else exchange the sign of peace, or descend the steps and exchange it with a token few whilst risking the (vanishingly small?) possibility that someone may tamper with the Blessed Sacrament in his absence?

I may have read somewhere (Sacramentum Caritatis?) too that Benedict XVI is not happy with the peace in the Communion Rite and has mused about the possibility of it going elsewhere.

[gwyn]

I'm fairly sure that it's intended as a symbolic gesture, "First make peace with your brother then leave your gift at the altar".

This has become seriously OTT in some places, with all but everyone milling around greeting all but everyone else. It's intended as a symbolic exchange wth those in your close proximity.

The missal says "All make a sign of peace according to local custom", at the introduction of the new missal there was no local custom so they were concocted locally.

The OTT-ness of this is a particular part of the Communion Rite is a focus of those opposed to the Novus Ordo (or the Bugnini Masonic Protestant Communion Service as I once heard it referred to).

[presbyter]

Nobody has mentioned that the rite is optional. I know of individuals who opt out: "I don't do that sort of thing" - but I wonder how many parishes do not include the Sign of Peace in their celebrations of Mass.

I myself do not leave the "sanctuary" (wrong word - should be presbyterium - but sanctuary has been perpetuated in the translation of GIRM). I exchange peace with the servers and then, standing at the altar, wait in silence until the attention of all the faithful is on what I am about to do - the profound ritual action of that moment of recognition of the disciples on the road to Emmaus, which is accompanied by the singing of the Lamb of God.

Bugnini did not invent the rite. Read some history.

[gwyn]

Presbyter corrected;

Bugnini did not invent the rite. Read some history.

since Gwyn had said;

The OTT-ness of this is a particular part of the Communion Rite is a focus of those opposed to the Novus Ordo (or the Bugnini Masonic Protestant Communion Service as I once heard it referred to).

Nothing there implying that he did.
http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals ... abbot.html
is interesting, as is
http://www.ad2000.com.au/articles/1989/ ... 7_640.html

Michael Davies has written a fair bit on the subject. "Pope Paul's New Mass" is difficult to get hold of at the mo, The upgrade version is due out soon it seems.

Pax vobiscum.

[Reginald]

Timing is also an issue...the 'peace' can become so protracted as to seem the most important element of Mass.

Before diving over the parish boundary my PP always used EP II and then pressed flesh with everyone in reach of an aisle - it literally took him as long to shake hands as he spent saying the EP. I recently read a reminder that the peace being given is not peace from the presider, but rather Christ's peace. Whilst "it's lovely that Father shakes hands with everyone" I'd prefer it if he took time to do his hand shaking after Mass (rather than heading straight for the sanctuary) and kept the focus of the Mass on the action of Christ as High Priest... but then I'm just a grumpy old trady!

[oopsorganist]

Oh yes, oh dear.

I can't remember when the need for everyone to shake everyone's hand got so pressing in our parish, but I feel it is really a very recent event. Father doesn't do it too much, actually I don't know what he does do, but everyone has got really into it. And I count up to 10 slowly in the organ loft. Then I let them have another 10. Then I start the Lamb of God, which few people sing, (they are better saying it) and we almost miss this bit out. I was just feeling today that it is somehow not right. I have got a really sad Lamb of God going to make sure we sing what is on the sheet you see, but it jars with the jolly time we just had being nice to each other. Do I remember rightly holding hands during the Peace at SS? That seemed a much better solution.

But if I don't give them time enough people tell me off.

But that said, I can also remember fairly recently that not everyone went to receive Communion and they all do now. And I think there is some connection.

Who is supposed to start the Lamb of God off? That's probably another idiot question, but I do have good reasons for asking.

[docmattc]

Nobody has mentioned that the rite is optional.

Not according to Celebrating the Mass:

The peace is always exchanged, though the invitation which introduces it is optional.

or am I misunderstanding it?


Much as agree that the peace can get OTT (and in my place there are people shaking hands with mates as they pass even on the way back from communion!), there's a certain irony that whilst we lament that so many liturgical symbols have become incredibly minimal, this one which has not, and we want to limit it.

Don't think anyone is specifically detailed to start the Lamb of God, but it should accompany the fraction. I take my cue from the PP returning to the altar and picking up the hosts from the patten, at which point I start playing.

[organist]

Quite correct docmattc. No-one has mentioned the loneliness of the priest on his own in his presbytery and how he needs to greet people and be greeted by them. And yes the priest last night was in the narrow narthex greeting everyone after Mass. No problem with a "sad" Lamb of God after a jolly time - we can cope with that oopsorganist! I wonder what happens in churches where the altar is in the middle? Does the priest just greet those nearest to him? I'm pleased to hear that's it's OK for the priest to greet the family at funerals and weddings.
One thing that really bugged me was at the ordinations where the priests welcomed the new guy to the club and he did not greet his family until later - all wrong psychologically!

[organist]

Can you see the altar oopsorganist? I have an angled mirror on the other side of the chancel so I can check when the priest is ready.

[oopsorganist]

No I can't see the altar because there is a big high altar by the organ but this is a bit empty now since the altar got moved down the steps and into the people. So I have a big mirror propped up on the railings but it gets moved and it only allows me to see one long strip of the right hand congregation. Which is rows of puzzled faces usually. (Woefully off topic).
If I want to see I have to physically turn round which I do for the sign of peace. It never occurred to me to look at what Father is doing, I am always in a too much of a panic. I had forgotten all that about Fraction Rites.

Must get a mirror.

[organist]

If it's just a symbolic gesture to those near you Gwyn this means that you can avoid the person who has upset you and with whom you should be at peace before receiving the sacrament. "Leave your gift at the altar and go and be reconciled with your brother".
There was one weekday Mass when I did just that. I could not receive until I had gone to the house of the choir member who had been so upset. He was furious because I played the organ on "Armistice Day" - said the organ should be silent for a solemn Requiem! He also got very cross after the first hymn because he said the organ was too loud on Easter Day and I threw my hymnbook down and said "The Lord is risen - we have to rejoice!". He was an amazing bass who was going very deaf and sat right near the organ. We sang the Latin requiem plainchant at his funeral. Dear old Ted - irascible but lovable too!

[gwyn]

Just fished this out from the GIRM

The Rite of Peace
82. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.

As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.

I see wholly where you're coming from Organist, having myself succumbed to the occasional book-throwing rant, mainly directed (the rant, not the book) at the tenors and basses for not watching my beat. One thing I've learned from my weaknesses is how wonderfully forgiving people can be. Peace not as the world can give eh?