A touching place

[docmattc]

Thanks for your reply, and welcome to the forum Sarah.

I won't post the lyrics here, because I'm sure that would breach John Bell's copyright. But someone else seems not too fussed about that, and the lyrics can be found on the link.

[alan29]

A bit of a reply to Oops, who I seem to have rattled a bit.
Catholic -v- non catholic ...... I have an idea that it comes down to how we think we are saved. I think that many catholic theologs would have it that for us salvation comes from becoming members of the Body of Christ, a communal sort of a thing. Whereas for many protestants it is more to do with me accepting Jesus as personal saviour. That will show itself in the kinds of perspectives that come across in hymns. The older non-cath hymns that work best at Mass tend to be scripture/psalm based.
No, I don't believe that we leave our troubles at the door, but for the life of me I can't believe that a shopping list of woes put into verse helps anyone. What if my woe is left out? Am I then left out? It is just too crass.
Yes, good Liturgy does have emotional impact - the shape of the Eucharist is very clever in that respect - but where should the focus of those emotions be? (Lift up your hearts.) What about the idea that we take our lives in with us, present them with the gifts and get them back changed?
I still think that Healing Services are the place for lovingly transforming peoples' pain in a one to one setting. Singing one hymn on a random Sunday does nothing except focus for a couple of minutes on a couple of people and at its worst leaves us thinking "Ah dear, poor lambs, that's them thought about until next time." Not good.
Sorry Oops, I seem to have gone off on one again.
Please no-one mention the Motu Proprio for a couple of days - let me calm down.
Alan

[mcb]

I won't post the lyrics here, because I'm sure that would breach John Bell's copyright.

Here's a non-copyright infringing version - the words for the verses (but not the refrain), complete with the melody line.

M.

[oopsorganist]

Motu Proprio ( I had to mention it)

Thank you Alan, that was helpful. And right.

But I still think that there is a place for challenging material. It may be where people wake up to begin to become the Body of Christ as you put it. Or else we can just go through the motions. Remembering that our parish fell out over the very idea that something called an Ubi Caritas needed to be learned and sung on Holy Thursday......."we're not learning anything new!" so I get to be in the middle of somewhere which is not very traditional and not modern, I get indecision about which way to go.......so I am always looking at the words before trying anything out, it is where we are stuck with "All that I am" as standard repertoire.

I thought the bidding prayers were the place we go "Ah, poor lambs" and put them away till next week, you know, starving Africa, wars and that stuff.......

A touching place could therefore be post Communion?

John Bell has really nice shoes. The song has to be OK because it is in Laudate, and CFE I think but I haven't checked. There is nothing about Wild Goose music that prevents us being the Body of Christ.

And I know three friends who have lost a child and gone back to church, but not to a Catholic church.

[docmattc]

John Bell has really nice shoes.

I wouldn't want that to be the sole reason for using his music. Neither should it put the moccasin (mockers on?)...I'll get my coat

The song has to be OK because it is in Laudate, and CFE I think but I haven't checked.

I'm not sure I'd make that assumption. Inclusion in a hymnbook doesn't (at the moment) represent any official endorsement of a piece. Even if it did, there would still have to be a judgement as to whether it was right for any given community at any given time.

I am still dithering about adding this to our repertoire, but erring on the 'go for it' side. If it gets a negative reaction I can always not use it subsequently.

[VML]

Without posting the refrain, - doesn't the title make it as inclusive as you like?
If you have never fitted any of the adjectives in the refrain you are fortunate indeed.

[oopsorganist]

Has anyone used ever

As if you were not there?

which is another one that is very challenging.

[quaeritor]

Just what is a "touching place" anyway? . . .

. . . and can anyone remind me of the difference between "Sentiment" and "sentimentality" (O Level English I think) and why one is good and the other is not?

Just asking

[musicus]

Just what is a "touching place" anyway?

It's a poetic conceit, but - for me, at least - quite a meaningful one. Rather like that other 'Celtic' one, 'Where heaven and earth meet' (which we used for the Northumbrian Summer School a few years ago). It's an incarnational image.

[VML]

'The Lord is close to the broken hearted;
those whose spirit is crushed, he will save.' Touching?

Psalm 33, verse from last Sunday's Mass..

[John Ainslie]

In the Incarnation, God did not just touch the human race - in Jesus his Son he immersed himself in it in all its messiness, even unto Jesus' death. Therefore Christianity is not a religion in which we seek some kind of nirvana or escape from the human condition. On the contrary, we seek to follow Christ by being involved in it, as he was, and especially in not only hearing "those who cry in pain or disgrace", but being ready to "touch" and handle them with human compassion and healing: think of Mother Teresa of Calcutta or Blessed Damian of Molokai. St Teresa of Avila said "Christ today has no body on earth but ours, no hands but ours, no feet but ours".

As to how one expresses this in song, whether John Bell's 'A touching place' is a good song, and whether it is good for singing at this or that liturgy, is a matter of liturgical, musical and pastoral judgement. The Church's tradition has been to eschew personal sentiment in the liturgy: devotional practices grew up at least partly to provide a more emotional outlet for personal prayer.

Is 'A touching place' touchy-feely or feely-emotional?

[lesley wright]

Has anyone used ever

As if you were not there?

which is another one that is very challenging.

Yes, we use that one as well - sparingly - and both get comments occasionally from the congregation (not known for any response at all, our congregation)
I guess you'll find John Bell's shoes are 'fair trade' like everything else he does!

[organist]

I've never used "As if you were not there" but I'd like to! I think we need to address healthy questioning and doubt in our liturgies. I've been reading each day A.N.Wilson's selections from Newman's writings and he addresses doubts and we learn that Mother Teresa had a long dark Night of the soul as I believe Cardinal Hume did.
Are there really fair trade shoes Lesley? If they do exist I bet he wears them!

[organist]

I've just read the earlier comments and I do not agree with alan29. I too am not happy about "me and God" material of the "I love you Jesus" type but if it helps people to worship and think, we should take a careful look at it. You surely cannot exclude "Soul of my saviour"!!! I agree "All that I am" is overused and frankly dull.
I'm starting a new thread about the Abortion act service which links to this theme!

[docmattc]

Any progress with this?

Would love to hear when you plan to do it and if there is any reaction.

Did it for the first time this morning at prep of gifts as it seemed particularly suited to complement the readings of the day.
The PP used the text of the chorus as the basis for his homily so it set us up to sing it nicely. I had no reaction afterwards, but I don't know if he did.