This may have been tried before, but here goes again anyway.
In the hope that it may be useful to some, and interest to others, here are my hymn choices for the next couple of weeks. I am giving titles rather than numbers bearing in mind the multitude of hymnbooks. We use CFE. Please feel free to criticize! And let's hear other people's choices!
1.2.3.4 in order are of course Entrance, Offertory, Communion, Recessional
John The Baptist
1. Oh the word of my Lord
2. Across the years there echoes still
3. The Benedictus
4. On Jordan's bank
Peter & Paul
1. For all the saints
2. Fight the good fight
3. O thou, who at thy eucharist didst pray
4. Faith of our fathers
13th in OT
1. The kingdom of God is justice and joy
2. Loving Father, from thy bounty
3. Among us and before us, Lord, you stand
4. Follow me, follow me
Hymn choices
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docmattc
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Thanks asb,
We too are doing the benedictus on Sunday, and Farrell's "O God you search me" as the psalm. Thought about beginning with "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday John the Baptist. Happy birthday to you" But frankly its just not long enough to accompany the procession!
Its the last Sunday I'll be playing the organ for 3 months as we're being shut for a re-roof. Its piano in the hall for a while.
We too are doing the benedictus on Sunday, and Farrell's "O God you search me" as the psalm. Thought about beginning with "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday John the Baptist. Happy birthday to you" But frankly its just not long enough to accompany the procession!
Its the last Sunday I'll be playing the organ for 3 months as we're being shut for a re-roof. Its piano in the hall for a while.
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Alan
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Re: Hymn choices
asb wrote:13th in OT
1. The kingdom of God is justice and joy
2. Loving Father, from thy bounty
3. Among us and before us, Lord, you stand
4. Follow me, follow me
Several years ago I was at some liturgical conference or other when the speaker mentioned Follow me. When I commented that this was not perhaps the finest hymn of all time (or words to that effect), the nun who had been sitting next to me protested. Unbeknown to me, she was the composer and author of the piece!
Re: Hymn choices
Alan wrote:asb wrote:13th in OT
1. The kingdom of God is justice and joy
2. Loving Father, from thy bounty
3. Among us and before us, Lord, you stand
4. Follow me, follow me
Several years ago I was at some liturgical conference or other when the speaker mentioned Follow me. When I commented that this was not perhaps the finest hymn of all time (or words to that effect), the nun who had been sitting next to me protested. Unbeknown to me, she was the composer and author of the piece!
Not one of my favourites, but some people like it. i once put on "Will you come and follow me?" instead and got told off by the pp cos John Bell is a Protestant!
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presbyter
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Re: Hymn choices
asb wrote:1.2.3.4 in order are of course Entrance, Offertory, Communion, Recessional
Why do you feel you need four hymns when GIRM and CTM suggest three?
Just a question - not a criticism. I suppose most people still do a four-hymn sandwich.
Three PP's ago, we didn't have a recessional hymn apart from in Lent when there are no organ voluntaries.
His successor insisted on one, as people told him they thought there should be one as they wanted to sing and not hear the organist showing off. (They were to afraid of his predecessor to have mentioned it to him)
The next one didn't like Offertory hymns, so organ music was substituted, and he didn't listen to the ensuing complaints.
The present one likes offertory hymns, so that hs been restored.
I hasten to add that at ALL 3 weekend Masses the Ordinary is sung, plus the Psalm at 2 out of 3, so it's not just a hymn sandwich.
His successor insisted on one, as people told him they thought there should be one as they wanted to sing and not hear the organist showing off. (They were to afraid of his predecessor to have mentioned it to him)
The next one didn't like Offertory hymns, so organ music was substituted, and he didn't listen to the ensuing complaints.
The present one likes offertory hymns, so that hs been restored.
I hasten to add that at ALL 3 weekend Masses the Ordinary is sung, plus the Psalm at 2 out of 3, so it's not just a hymn sandwich.
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nazard
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Re: Hymn choices
presbyter wrote:Why do you feel you need four hymns when GIRM and CTM suggest three?
Which three? I haven't got GIRM handy, but I thought the only place a hymn was actually allowed is a thanksgiving after communion.
Our old PP forbade any attempt to move to the new GIRM, and the new man has not broached the subject yet.
For three of the last four school Masses we've not had a recessional. The most recent one was celebrated by the local Ordinary and he publicly endorsed the dropping of that hymn. Nevertheless, at our recent planning meeting for SS Peter and Paul several members of staff were adamant that it should be reintroduced. Interestingly, the kids were not the least bit bothered about it being dropped - in class we've had the opportunity to explain that we are sent out at the end of Mass to build the kingdom of God and that hanging around for another singalong might be inappropriate.
For those unsure what the debate is about, GIRM and CTM are both trying to preserve an historic characteristic of the Roman Rite - namely that it is very brief at the end (if you've been to Divine Liturgy on one of the Eastern Rites you may see the opposite, with distribution of blessed bread and so on following on from what we would call the Communion Rite). The proper chants for the Mass in the Graduale(s) - which hymns stand in place of - are Entrance, Offertory and Communion. Westminster Cathedral frequently demonstrates this very well with the congregation singing the antiphon and the choir singing the psalm verses between. The link below is to a site which has all of the Communion chants with their verses. You can see how it would be quite easy for a willing congregation to get the hang of these. And for those who think this is some 'pre-conciliar rubbish' - the very people responsible for the Modern Roman Rite set Solesmes the task of producing the work that this is an expanded version of.
http://www.musicasacra.com/communio
For those unsure what the debate is about, GIRM and CTM are both trying to preserve an historic characteristic of the Roman Rite - namely that it is very brief at the end (if you've been to Divine Liturgy on one of the Eastern Rites you may see the opposite, with distribution of blessed bread and so on following on from what we would call the Communion Rite). The proper chants for the Mass in the Graduale(s) - which hymns stand in place of - are Entrance, Offertory and Communion. Westminster Cathedral frequently demonstrates this very well with the congregation singing the antiphon and the choir singing the psalm verses between. The link below is to a site which has all of the Communion chants with their verses. You can see how it would be quite easy for a willing congregation to get the hang of these. And for those who think this is some 'pre-conciliar rubbish' - the very people responsible for the Modern Roman Rite set Solesmes the task of producing the work that this is an expanded version of.
http://www.musicasacra.com/communio
Well, I always have a recessional hymn, but often drop either the offertory or communion hymns. If there is no offertory hymn my PP likes incidental music until the Orate Fratres, so my improvisational skills get exercised (Mirror, signal, music). Communion is more varied: sometimes a processional chant, sometimes a processional hymn (difficult with a small congregation), sometimes incidental music, always a decent period of silence post communion.
My attempt to drop the recessional hymn last Palm Sunday was overruled.
My attempt to drop the recessional hymn last Palm Sunday was overruled.
It's not a generation gap, it's a taste gap.
docmattc wrote: Thought about beginning with "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday John the Baptist. Happy birthday to you" But frankly its just not long enough to accompany the procession!
Its the last Sunday I'll be playing the organ for 3 months as we're
Add more verses:-
"There are locusts for tea,
There are locusts for tea.
There are locusts, dear Jo-ohn.
There are locusts for tea.
And wild honey too,
and wild honey too.
Wild honey, dear Jo-ohn.
And wild honey too."
And for the Assumption
"Hooray and up she rises."
Provide your own verses.
I know an Anglican organist in a very posh spikey parish who got fired for improvising a dazzling French style piece on that tune on that day as a recessional. He forgot that the vicar had a keen love of Durufle.
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I've just realised, that might not be true, it might be one of them there air born myths.
"Hooray and up she rises."
Provide your own verses.
I know an Anglican organist in a very posh spikey parish who got fired for improvising a dazzling French style piece on that tune on that day as a recessional. He forgot that the vicar had a keen love of Durufle.
__________________________________________________________
I've just realised, that might not be true, it might be one of them there air born myths.
Re: Hymn choices
Presbyter wrote
"Why do you feel you need four hymns when GIRM and CTM suggest three?
Just a question - not a criticism. I suppose most people still do a four-hymn sandwich."
Our Liturgy Committee decided to stick with 4 hymns (we do sing other parts of the Mass as well). It is an English tradition to end a church service with a final (rousing?) hymn and we felt it appropriate that our own small part of the church should continue doing so. Personally, when invited to a meal, I do not like to rush away as soon as the table is cleared!
Organ voluntaries are fine but need a reasonable standard and confidence on the part of the organist. Many choirs cannot cope with much more than leading / supporting unison singing.
There has always been a creative tension between what the centre feels what is right for liturgy and what those on the ground feel what is right. Long may it continue!
"Why do you feel you need four hymns when GIRM and CTM suggest three?
Just a question - not a criticism. I suppose most people still do a four-hymn sandwich."
Our Liturgy Committee decided to stick with 4 hymns (we do sing other parts of the Mass as well). It is an English tradition to end a church service with a final (rousing?) hymn and we felt it appropriate that our own small part of the church should continue doing so. Personally, when invited to a meal, I do not like to rush away as soon as the table is cleared!
Organ voluntaries are fine but need a reasonable standard and confidence on the part of the organist. Many choirs cannot cope with much more than leading / supporting unison singing.
There has always been a creative tension between what the centre feels what is right for liturgy and what those on the ground feel what is right. Long may it continue!
JW
At the risk of being picky - I play the organ for the local Methodists, and sing with the local Anglican choir (now, doesn't that just confound those of you who've read my spiky posts in the past 
). In both cases the final, rousing, hymn is followed by the blessing and dismissal. Most Catholic churches I know of sing after the dismissal as the procession leaves the sanctuary. It's not the first time that I've heard the 'inculturation' argument for the four hymn sandwich - and I'm not convinced that it's without merit, for those congregations with large numbers of converts from other Christian traditions, but I don't think it's an argument for the use of the last hymn as we usually see it employed today.
Whilst your liturgy committee can make the decision it has, it should do so fully conscious that it is flying in the face of the advice of the Bishops' Conference and of Rome. More importantly, it should do so knowing that it is changing one of the characteristics of the Roman Rite. Apostolic Churches ought to be cautious of rejecting 1600 (making inferences about the Roman Rite from its similarities to the Ambrosian admittedly) years of tradition (and back to spiky me almost seamlessly
). The liturgy ought not to be about the personal tastes of any individual or group, it is not something put together or constructed but rather something that is received.
PS Why isn't there an emoticon with 6 candles on its head to denote ultra-spikiness?
PPS Oh, and welcome by the way...sorry to be throwing things at you when we've only just met!
). In both cases the final, rousing, hymn is followed by the blessing and dismissal. Most Catholic churches I know of sing after the dismissal as the procession leaves the sanctuary. It's not the first time that I've heard the 'inculturation' argument for the four hymn sandwich - and I'm not convinced that it's without merit, for those congregations with large numbers of converts from other Christian traditions, but I don't think it's an argument for the use of the last hymn as we usually see it employed today.
Whilst your liturgy committee can make the decision it has, it should do so fully conscious that it is flying in the face of the advice of the Bishops' Conference and of Rome. More importantly, it should do so knowing that it is changing one of the characteristics of the Roman Rite. Apostolic Churches ought to be cautious of rejecting 1600 (making inferences about the Roman Rite from its similarities to the Ambrosian admittedly) years of tradition (and back to spiky me almost seamlessly
). The liturgy ought not to be about the personal tastes of any individual or group, it is not something put together or constructed but rather something that is received.
PS Why isn't there an emoticon with 6 candles on its head to denote ultra-spikiness?
PPS Oh, and welcome by the way...sorry to be throwing things at you when we've only just met!