not rushing forward in this matter then
If it was the DFES there would have been 600 new initiatives since 1980 and a mountain of glossy documents to match.
It will still fall on the shoulders of unpaid and untrained people so will it really make any difference. Three years ago the bossiest music group member was telling me that it was not OK to sing the Mass Acclamations on Holy Thursday ... unless you go out to find information and guidance you can go on a long time with what is wrong and inappropriate and sadly this quite quickly becomes "What we have always done". It would be so sensible to have one hymnal and agreed texts and settings, as long as there is some artistic or local licence built in, just for the ordinary days and the trudge of planning it all. I already feel like we do not know most of what is recommended and so we just cobble things together. Better still they can make a CD and send it around ...or put it on a website...with down loadable sheet music...
I wonder if we will still be able to use our tambourine?
Diocesan Music - what is being promoted?
Moderators: Dom Perignon, Casimir
As I kneel....
Here, bereaved families, in theory, choose the hymns for the requiem, and it is difficult for me as music provider to suggest there might be a sung psalm, or any part of the Mass.
But by some coincidence, when the new PP arrived we had 'As I kneel' at the first three funerals, having not sung it in the parish for a good few years.
(And just lately the psalm has been sometimes replaced by interesting poems from a book provided by one of the funeral directors.)
But by some coincidence, when the new PP arrived we had 'As I kneel' at the first three funerals, having not sung it in the parish for a good few years.
(And just lately the psalm has been sometimes replaced by interesting poems from a book provided by one of the funeral directors.)
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presbyter
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Looking more specifically at one song:
GIRM England & Wales
The Entrance
47.After the people have gathered, the Entrance chant begins as the priest enters with the deacon and ministers. The purpose of this chant is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical season or festivity, and accompany the procession of the priest and ministers.
48.The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the dioceses of England and Wales
the options for the Entrance Chant are: (1) the antiphon and psalm from the Graduale Romanum or the Graduale Simplex; or (2) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, the text of which has been approved by the Bishops' Conference of England and Wales.
which is not quite the same as GIRM - Universal
48. Singing at this time is done alternately either
by the choir and the people or by the cantor and
the people, or entirely by the people, or by the
choir alone. The antiphon and psalm of the Graduale
Romanum or the Graduale Simplex may be used, or
another liturgical song that is suited to the sacred
action, the day, or the season and that has a text
approved by the Conference of Bishops.
Celebrating the Mass no. 140 directs us to follow Universal Law - a psalm or a suitable liturgical song
The Particular Law of GIRM E & W would seem to restrict our choice to texts based on antiphons and/or the Psalter.
This contradiction between GIRM E & W and CTM just leaves this poor soul - who is working "at the coal face" - confused.
GIRM England & Wales
The Entrance
47.After the people have gathered, the Entrance chant begins as the priest enters with the deacon and ministers. The purpose of this chant is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical season or festivity, and accompany the procession of the priest and ministers.
48.The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. In the dioceses of England and Wales
the options for the Entrance Chant are: (1) the antiphon and psalm from the Graduale Romanum or the Graduale Simplex; or (2) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, the text of which has been approved by the Bishops' Conference of England and Wales.
which is not quite the same as GIRM - Universal
48. Singing at this time is done alternately either
by the choir and the people or by the cantor and
the people, or entirely by the people, or by the
choir alone. The antiphon and psalm of the Graduale
Romanum or the Graduale Simplex may be used, or
another liturgical song that is suited to the sacred
action, the day, or the season and that has a text
approved by the Conference of Bishops.
Celebrating the Mass no. 140 directs us to follow Universal Law - a psalm or a suitable liturgical song
The Particular Law of GIRM E & W would seem to restrict our choice to texts based on antiphons and/or the Psalter.
This contradiction between GIRM E & W and CTM just leaves this poor soul - who is working "at the coal face" - confused.
Ouch! That would appear to rule out an opening hymn. I wonder if this is not, in fact, an unwitting mistake.
musicus - moderator, Liturgy Matters
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presbyter
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I do hope it is indeed a mistake for GIRM refers to no. 48 with regard to the norms for singing at the Offertory.
CTM (180 - last two bullet points) again follows Universal Law allowing considerable flexibility in what is sung.
GIRM Universal and E & W
74. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied
by the offertory chant (cf. no. 37b), which continues
at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar.
The norms on the manner of singing are the same as
for singing at the entrance (cf. no. 48 ). Singing may
always accompany the rite at the offertory, even
when there is no procession with the gifts.
Then as regards singing at Communion, again in England and Wales we seem to be restricted to texts based on the antiphons and the Psalter, which is not the intention of the Universal law.
Celebrating the Mass (213) once more points us to the flexibility of Universal law and the possibility of "suitable song".
GIRM - Universal
87. An antiphon from the Graduate Romanum, with
or without the psalm, or an antiphon with psalm from
the Graduate Simplex, or some other suitable liturgi-
cal song approved by the Conference of Bishops may
be sung at Communion. This is sung either by the
choir alone or by the choir or cantor with the people.
If there is no singing, however, the Communion anti-
phon found in the Missal may be recited either by
the faithful, or by some of them, or by a reader.
Otherwise the priest himself says it after he has
received Communion and before he distributes Com-
munion to the faithful.
88. When the distribution of Communion is finished,
as circumstances allow, the priest and faithful spend
some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or
other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung
by the entire congregation.
GIRM - England and Wales
87. In the dioceses of the England and Wales the options for the Communion chant are as follows: (1) the antiphon from the Graduale Romanum either with or without the psalm; (2) the antiphon with the psalm from the Graduale Simplex; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. It is sung either by the choir
alone or by the choir or cantor with the people. If there is no singing, however, the Communion antiphon found in the Missal
may be recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a lector.
Otherwise the priest himself says it after he has received Communion and before he distributes Communion to the faithful.
88. When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying quietly. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.
I cannot believe that our Bishops really want to constrain our choices to the Graduale and texts based thereon but for certain of my brethren with - shall we say - a rubrical and legalistic approach to celebration, GIRM has canonical clout, whereas CTM is but commentary.
By the way, my Bishop is instructing me (and the Diocesan Commission) to follow Universal Law.
CTM (180 - last two bullet points) again follows Universal Law allowing considerable flexibility in what is sung.
GIRM Universal and E & W
74. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied
by the offertory chant (cf. no. 37b), which continues
at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar.
The norms on the manner of singing are the same as
for singing at the entrance (cf. no. 48 ). Singing may
always accompany the rite at the offertory, even
when there is no procession with the gifts.
Then as regards singing at Communion, again in England and Wales we seem to be restricted to texts based on the antiphons and the Psalter, which is not the intention of the Universal law.
Celebrating the Mass (213) once more points us to the flexibility of Universal law and the possibility of "suitable song".
GIRM - Universal
87. An antiphon from the Graduate Romanum, with
or without the psalm, or an antiphon with psalm from
the Graduate Simplex, or some other suitable liturgi-
cal song approved by the Conference of Bishops may
be sung at Communion. This is sung either by the
choir alone or by the choir or cantor with the people.
If there is no singing, however, the Communion anti-
phon found in the Missal may be recited either by
the faithful, or by some of them, or by a reader.
Otherwise the priest himself says it after he has
received Communion and before he distributes Com-
munion to the faithful.
88. When the distribution of Communion is finished,
as circumstances allow, the priest and faithful spend
some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or
other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung
by the entire congregation.
GIRM - England and Wales
87. In the dioceses of the England and Wales the options for the Communion chant are as follows: (1) the antiphon from the Graduale Romanum either with or without the psalm; (2) the antiphon with the psalm from the Graduale Simplex; (3) a song from another collection of psalms and antiphons, approved by the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. It is sung either by the choir
alone or by the choir or cantor with the people. If there is no singing, however, the Communion antiphon found in the Missal
may be recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a lector.
Otherwise the priest himself says it after he has received Communion and before he distributes Communion to the faithful.
88. When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying quietly. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.
I cannot believe that our Bishops really want to constrain our choices to the Graduale and texts based thereon but for certain of my brethren with - shall we say - a rubrical and legalistic approach to celebration, GIRM has canonical clout, whereas CTM is but commentary.
By the way, my Bishop is instructing me (and the Diocesan Commission) to follow Universal Law.
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presbyter
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- Location: elsewhere
To return to the Lamb of God and its text (upon which CTM is silent).......
GIRM Universal and E & W
The Chants
366. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for
those found in the Order of Mass, such as at the
Agnus Dei.
Our Bishops have not published (not sought after?) any derogation from Universal Law here. In the Latin text of the Third Edition of the Missal, there is permission to vary/compose texts for Penitential Rite III, for example, but not for the Lamb of God. If the Guide for Composers is to include "model texts" and allow troped settings, then I would hope that the permission to use such texts from our Bishops will be made clear in
the body of the text of forthcoming guides to the Missal and not simply published in an appendix to a document which few people will read.
Clergy and all the faithful need simple and direct instruction. We don't necessarily want to get involved in debate such as this, interesting as it might be:
http://www.adoremus.org/1202AgnusDei.html
GIRM Universal and E & W
The Chants
366. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for
those found in the Order of Mass, such as at the
Agnus Dei.
Our Bishops have not published (not sought after?) any derogation from Universal Law here. In the Latin text of the Third Edition of the Missal, there is permission to vary/compose texts for Penitential Rite III, for example, but not for the Lamb of God. If the Guide for Composers is to include "model texts" and allow troped settings, then I would hope that the permission to use such texts from our Bishops will be made clear in
the body of the text of forthcoming guides to the Missal and not simply published in an appendix to a document which few people will read.
Clergy and all the faithful need simple and direct instruction. We don't necessarily want to get involved in debate such as this, interesting as it might be:
http://www.adoremus.org/1202AgnusDei.html
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presbyter
- Posts: 1651
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:21 pm
- Parish / Diocese: youknowalready
- Location: elsewhere
Gabriel wrote:If my memory is correct the US Bishop's Committee on the Liturgy, which already asks that settings of the Mass be 'approved' before publication, has given permission for publication of settings of the Lamb of God with other invocations - i.e. an adaptation of the current text.
Gabriel
Yes, both our own Bishops and the American Bishops (as recently as 1995) give permission to use the ICET text, as Martin has pointed out. But given that specific mention of the Lamb of God in GIRM 366, is this practice (and the use of other unofficial tropes) now abrogated (lest it achieve a certain juridical status through "custom"?). Indeed, can a Bishops' Conference now permit variations to this text, in the light of recent Roman liturgy documents? Any Canon Lawyers out there? Is there anything in Notitiae?