Kyrie eleison

[gwyn]

Working as a Psychiatric Community Nurse I get to listen to the car radio quite a lot as I drive from call to call. A month or so ago there was a programme which I think was entitled "Lord, Have Mercy". It looked at the meaning of Kyrie eleison.

The presenter began by asking the listener “What does Kyrie eleison mean? If your answer is 'Lord, have mercy' then you have given a good literal translation but will have failed to even begin to express its depths."

“Eleison” he went on to explain “comes from the same stem as the word from which the Greek word for olive oil is derived, olive oil was used in cleansing and dressing wounds. When, therefore, we sing Kyrie eleison we're asking the Lord to pick us up, to bathe us, cleanse and heal our wounds, to snuggle us up like a loving and devoted mother would snuggle up a sick infant, and make us well again.

That was the gist of it anyway. 'Lord, have mercy' only barely and somewhat coldly resembles the depth of meaning of its Greek original.

One of those programmes that I wish I'd recorded.

[VML]

Wow... Glyn that's a real eye opener, and I haven't the words to express the concept that opens to me. Thank you.
Radio comes up with some amazing and totally unexpected programmes.
We use these words all the time, often without thinking, with only the vaguest notion of what we are singing, and concentrating on the delivery or performance.
I expect some parishes, like ours, only sing the Kyrie during Advent and Lent. It takes a lifetime of life experience and understanding to take in even a tiny part of what we are doing, in all our ministry.
Sometimes it is truly mind boggling.

V

[presbyter]

'Lord, have mercy' only barely and somewhat coldly resembles the depth of meaning of its Greek original.

Off the top of my head - before I go to bed - eleos (mercy) - is the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew hesed - i.e. the constant, faithful, divine loving-kindness of the Covenant....... or as regards Mass - the New Covenant in Christ's blood ......... perhaps browsing through all the possibilities for penitential Rite III in the Altar Missal might give you further insight into what this mercy is......

........... and then, of course, we do use oil liberally as a sacramental sign of that New Covenant (mercy) in action ..... I have very recently anointed someone close to death - my hands were dripping with Chrism at ordination - I should think all of us here were at least smeared with oil at Baptism and Confirmation.


Afterthought - our cathedral has a side chapel where the Holy Oils are reserved and they are prominently displayed with an explanatory note and prayer as to their function. Do any of our churches do this? I confess my oil stocks are locked in a sacristy cupboard.

[Merseysider]

Was this a BBC programme? If so, you can probably listen to it again via the BBC website.

[gwyn]

. . . you can probably listen to it again via the BBC website

I typed Kyrie eleison as well as Lord, have Mercy into the BBC Radio 4 search facility but didn't get the result I was looking for.

It was a few weeks (perhaps months) ago now.

[oopsorganist]

Can't spell it but

we went on a workshop in Huddersfield and John Bell taught us all this wonderfull Kyrie which was simple and in three parts. I would love to do it at Christmas but don't know if I dare ..... as somewhere I just read you could leave this out on Christmas to highlight the Gloria.... anyway it was Russian Orthodox Kyrie and was in three parts, quite easy and also spooky.

[Merseysider]

What was it called?
Where can we get it?

[gwyn]

What was it called?
Where can we get it?

It's available for download from:

http://www.olsm.org.uk/our_parish/choir.phtml

Go to the bottom of the web page.

[sidvicius]

...but the download does not feature any composer credit or copyright permission details, which we will need if we want to use it legally.

[gwyn]

Indeed, Sid.

Like Oopsorganist I heard this setting of Kyrie eleison while at a liturgy study day. Like Oops experienced, the three parts were sung seperately by the leader to the gathering, we then sang it back. I don't know who composed/arranged it. Maybe it's part of tradition rather than written down anywhere.

Maybe someone can enlighten us?

[oopsorganist]

At the bottom of the photocopy which I was given, obviously for personal practice and not for performance............ it says it is traditional Russian Orthodox liturgy or words to that effect so I would guess it is OK to spread it around? My friend Mo says it would be good to enter into church singing it for the Vigil Mass at Christmas but I think she is too imaginative. Perhaps I'll teach it to Father and make him sing the tenor line.

[gwyn]

Phew! No worries there then.

Seriously though, if anyone knows of a composer or copyright owner, do let me know and I'll whip it away from the website like a thief in the night (not unlike the thief in the day who posted it to the site in the first place)

G.

[oopsorganist]

I just looked up the Christmas songs on Wild goose website that have been suggested on Carol thread and I found that Wildgoose do a USSR Kyrie listed on their song PDF file which my just be the one we are discussing. However, I do not know if the arrangement is trad or composed and so should we contact Wildgoose about this?

Couldn't find "God's Surprise" or "Whose child is this" but am off now to buy some tapes on line. I jokingly told the family who were having a Baptism this morning that they had to lead the singing but they just looked confused and waved their hands because they cannot speak English.
NB try to be more multi - cultural. Off to buy multi cultural tapes from Wildgoose.

[Merseysider]

...couldn't find "Whose child is this"

Probably "What child is this".

[organist]

I heard part of that programme on Pick of the week and it was a real revelation to me. Could someone publish it please?