oopsorganist wrote: I think it was Hare who said that a good organ would attract an organist. But all of that is a bit aspirational..
No - that wasn't me. I agree - that is "aspirational" (Hate the term!!) In theory, it should be true, but.........
I'm the other way round, an organist whose parish doesn't have an organ. I'm pretty content with the set-up we have. Musically sometimes I lead when the music demands it and at other times I use some of the nice synth pad sounds to allow the others to come to the fore. To be honest I would have severe reservations about the parish spending money on an organ in these straightened times.
SC, if the sampling of the piano voice on a keyboard is "satisfactory" or fit for purpose, then the samples of pipe organ should be too? If not, then the manufacturers are missing a feature which would make keyboards much more useful in church settings.
However, I suspect that all of the keyboard sounds are not really better than a tinny CD......... which would be an argument for providing a piano over an organ or digital organ. Or upgrading sound systems so that amplification is good, if it has to be electronic.
Maybe the opportunity to play on a good piano is what is lacking in parishes. It is easier for a pianist to play a piano than for a pianist to adjust to the organ technique. Removes a barrier. A mellow Welmar would be so much better than an expensive digital organ or an old pipe organ in disrepair. And cheaper to maintain.
SC, if the sampling of the piano voice on a keyboard is "satisfactory" or fit for purpose, then the samples of pipe organ should be too? If not, then the manufacturers are missing a feature which would make keyboards much more useful in church settings.
Unfortunately it is far more difficult to provide decent organ sounds than piano sounds. The easiest sounds to reproduce are harpsichord sounds.
oopsorganist wrote:Maybe the opportunity to play on a good piano is what is lacking in parishes. It is easier for a pianist to play a piano than for a pianist to adjust to the organ technique. Removes a barrier. A mellow Welmar would be so much better than an expensive digital organ or an old pipe organ in disrepair. And cheaper to maintain.
I heartily agree with this in principle, although something a bit better than a Welmar would be nicer! A Kawai baby grand is fairly affordable, for example.
Our digi piano is a Kawai. We had "Because the Lord is my shepherd" to the accompaniment of an excellent acoustic guitarist, a bass guitarist, two flutes and me on the harp voice of the piano. All gently amplified through the church PA. Gorgeous. And the people sang - the litmus test of any congregational music. Can't do that on an organ.
I have let this run for a bit as there have been plenty of interesting and useful postings, however we've not have much about Music Animation for a while. Can we please return to the topic now. If you wish to continue with the guitar/organ/keyboard debate please either start a new thread or PM me to split out the "instrument" debate into a new thread (if there is demand for it, I will happily do it).
alan29 wrote:Our digi piano is a Kawai. We had "Because the Lord is my shepherd" to the accompaniment of an excellent acoustic guitarist, a bass guitarist, two flutes and me on the harp voice of the piano. All gently amplified through the church PA. Gorgeous. And the people sang - the litmus test of any congregational music. Can't do that on an organ.
Er - are you saying that congregations can't sing to an organ??
Dom Perignon wrote:I have let this run for a bit as there have been plenty of interesting and useful postings, however we've not have much about Music Animation for a while. Can we please return to the topic now. If you wish to continue with the guitar/organ/keyboard debate please either start a new thread or PM me to split out the "instrument" debate into a new thread (if there is demand for it, I will happily do it).
I think splitting out would be good, although I fear the debate will just go round and round in circles, with everyone believing their viewpoint is correct!!
Dom Perignon wrote:I have let this run for a bit as there have been plenty of interesting and useful postings, however we've not have much about Music Animation for a while. Can we please return to the topic now. If you wish to continue with the guitar/organ/keyboard debate please either start a new thread or PM me to split out the "instrument" debate into a new thread (if there is demand for it, I will happily do it).
I think splitting out would be good, although I fear the debate will just go round and round in circles, with everyone believing their viewpoint is correct!!
You aren't wrong. And apologies for my part in taking the thread down a particularly brambly by-way.
alan29 wrote:Our digi piano is a Kawai. We had "Because the Lord is my shepherd" to the accompaniment of an excellent acoustic guitarist, a bass guitarist, two flutes and me on the harp voice of the piano. All gently amplified through the church PA. Gorgeous. And the people sang - the litmus test of any congregational music. Can't do that on an organ.
Er - are you saying that congregations can't sing to an organ??
I am sure you understand full well what alan29 is saying!.
I have occasionally met an organist who was able to work co-operatively with a group of other musicians. Never seen so much as an organ and two guitars and two flutes at the same time, though.
But perhaps this can lead the discussion back to the topic of Music Animators.
I wonder what people's understanding of such a role is - is it simply to play and sing and thus to add animation to the liturgy? Or is it to co-ordinate the efforts of a group of other musicians - less formal than a Director or Music, obviously, but still primarily charged with supporting and growing the music-ministry, rather than simply providing itv?
I am sure animators have been around as long as people have sung together, even if the word has come into greater use in the last ten years or so. This has to be a good thing as it suggests that 'ordinary' people are singing, not just those directed by a choir master or mistress, as was the common description years ago. I had a few organ lessons while at school, got involved in folk music, then took a fifteen year family break. My husband's recorder teacher was Dom Gregory Murray, so it has always been a serious instrument in our family. Returning to music 30 years ago, with a very encouraging PP, we have grown and learnt. Now though our main problem is that no-one will come to any practices. This Sunday, for instance, I played organ for Dear Lord and Father, classical guitar Nick Baty's Eldonian Gloria, sang the psalm from the lectern, with the response play over from the recorder, and unaccompanied verses, etc. Is that more or less what an animator does? I hope so. I am a singer who plays the organ rather than an organist. I am very involved in folk song and getting people singing in church and in the wider community. In this parish we have never had a demarcation between organ and instruments, but I do mean classical instruments: Trumpet, violin, cello, bassoon, flute, recorders, not often more than two out of that lot at any one time, but it is quite possible for an organist to take a back role and accompany the instruments for alternate verses. We do have another music pairing of keyboard and amplified guitar, and though we have co-operated for FHC and Confirmation, it is not ideal. The other guitarist is an excellent animator, and people do sing, which is what it's all about.
Reluctantly ...... Its a remarkable organ that can sound like a classical guitar, a harp and two flutes simultaneously. And a pretty talented organist, too.
