The 'New' Translation - your recommended music settings

VML · Post by **VML** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:11 pm

We have been using Nick Baty's Eldonian Gloria. It has truly taken off, and this is in a parish where however hard we try, no-one will come and practise.
It is set for choir and assembly, in theory, and the congregation part is printable. In reality, our parish have learnt it by ear, and sing the lot, even with a Mass booklet with the words printed under the chant setting!

Very guitar friendly, but helpful to have a recorder, flute or violin to play the intro.

justMary · Post by **justMary** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:02 am

alan29 wrote:However, I would love to be pointed in the direction of a simple, guitar friendly settings of the Gloria that can be used by a parish that has no choir (and no use for one.) More than one, to highlight the different seasons. Its a sung text and belongs to the congregation.

One of our groups has picked up the Gloria from the Timothy R Smith Mass of the Sacred Heart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7W8mX ... RNhf7kHG2d

It's working even better than expected: people think they almost-know the verses only I know they don't! If we can get one more musician to start using it, then the parish will know it within 1-2 years. That sounds like a long time. But we have 4-5 volunteer musicians groups, with very different capabilities. Of those, only two having the skills to use new materials, and one doesn't really like singing Mass parts. And the PP has given a very clear mandate to not become dependent on any one person, but to keep them all on board. So - things take time.!

Our musicians are mainly keyboard, so I can't comment about guitar friendly or not. But my instinct is that it would be.

(Don't ask whether it's approved for use, we're not even thinking about questions like that! The Glorias in Ireland's approved book just don't work for us at all.)

Dom Perignon · Post by **Dom Perignon** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:33 pm

Please add here your recommendations for settings of the ordinary of the Mass in the 'new' translation that you have found useful. I have included some posts that were originally posted elsewhere. Please note that settings must have had "permission to publish" either from the Bishops Conference of England & Wales or another conference of bishops which uses the same translation (eg USA, Ireland or Scotland). Posts that are, in my sole opinion (i) unfairly derogatory of settings (as opposed to fair and reasoned criticism), or (ii) amount to self-promotion of own works or "salesmanship" may well be deleted without notice. This thread is intended to be helpful and informative, not a marketing tool.

oopsorganist · Post by **oopsorganist** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:44 pm

Like justMary I was using Mass of the Sacred Heart Gloria. Timothy Dudley Smith. We were able to download a CD to use when learning it with the parish then it just took off.

Southern Comfort · Post by **Southern Comfort** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:50 pm

oopsorganist wrote:Like justMary I was using Mass of the Sacred Heart Gloria. Timothy Dudley Smith. We were able to download a CD to use when learning it with the parish then it just took off.

oops means Tim Smith, published by OCP. (Timothy Dudley Smith is a retired Anglican bishop text writer — "Tell out, my soul", etc — and not a composer. That blasted autocorrect! Oops!)

Ros Wood · Post by **Ros Wood** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:42 pm

For Glorias we have been using Nick Baty's Warrington Gloria. Chris Walker's Belmont is also used occasionally when resources are limited (along with a locally produced update of the Lourdes Gloria).

For Eucharistic Acclamations we are using:
Chris Walker's Belmont (Lent and when resources are scarce)
Ros Wood's New Christ the King (Eastertide and bog feasts) - permission to publish has been given but I never got round to submitting a published version as no-one has asked for it
Chris Walker's New Celtic Liturgy (Advent and Christmas)
Nock Baty's St Clare Acclamations (other times)

IncenseTom · Post by **IncenseTom** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:03 pm

For those looking for something slightly different, we're currently learning the Gloria from the 'Mass of Our Lady, Help of Christians' by Australian composer Richard Connolly.
I don't think (but I might be wrong) that it's been approved by the English Bishops but it has been approved by the Australian Bishops.

The refrain is in Latin and very singable and the verses are in English and can be sung by cantor, choir or congregation. The verses have enough going on to keep them musically interesting, like changing time signatures and duplets (against the compound time signature).

The refrains are also optional for those who choose to use the piece as a through-setting. We haven't bothered with the rest of the Mass setting yet (and not really sure that we will - have to wait and see).

Like I say, a nice choice for something which seems to me to be a little bit different from many of the other 'new' Glorias I've had a play through.

PhloridaPhil · Post by **PhloridaPhil** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:52 pm

I arrived at St Lawrence, Tampa four months ago to find a congregation lustily singing DeBruyn's Mass of Resurrection but they had sung this at every Mass for the last 3 years. I stuck with it for a while and then in Advent/Christmas I introduced the Eucharistic Acclamations from Mass of Creation, the New Celtic Liturgy Gloria and the Lord, have mercy and Lamb of God from my own 'New Wine mass'. While it is true that there is still some stumbling over the revisions to the Mass of Creation 'Holy' the congregation have accepted these warmly.

This weekend I seek to introduce the New Wine Glory to God. We'll start with the congregation singing only the outer sections and the SATB choir or Cantors taking the central section. This would give us two through-composed Glory to God(s) and one refrain version. The refrain versions are so useful when you have visitors you wish to welcome into the song eg at Christmas.

At the moment my projected scheme looks set include the English Missal tones during Lent and to return to DeBruyn's Mass of Resurrection during Eastertide. It is a pity that OCP's Music Editions only include the Latin version of the Missal tones setting.

I suspect the MacMillan St Anne Eucharistic acclamations have fallen out of favour since the revised version came out. I'd be interested to hear how the revised versions of other settings are being received.

IncenseTom · Post by **IncenseTom** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:44 pm

We sometimes use the revised St. Anne's Mass by MacMillan - Sanctus, Mem Acc and Agnus Dei.

The congregation seem to have no issues with the changes to the text, however, we only use it from time to time because the PP feels that as the music was originally composed for a different set of words, it is for want of a better word, a bit unworthy compared to new compositions which have been created for the new texts.
I think he feels that the text of the Sanctus is in '2nd place' and maintaining the original melody was in '1st place', and that the text should always be of primary importance.
I have to say that I can see his point.

I use the word 'unworthy' with no disrespect to James MacMillan.

This is the only example of a revised setting we use. New settings seem to have been the way forward for us and we still use the missal tones quite regularly as they are the 'standard setting'. Everyone sings them well.

High Peak · Post by **High Peak** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:17 am

I am in the middle of trying to build up a repetoire of four or five Mass settings of different styles for use in our Vigil Mass; it is taking somewhat longer than I had anticipated and I've certainly discovered that you cannot please all of the poeple all of the time!! The music-providers at the parish's other Mass is also in on the plan so that, when we come together for the big, all-parish celebrations, everyone will be familiar with everything.

Presently we coming to end of introducing the third setting, Christopher Walker's Belmont Mass which I rather like but, because of its plainchant style and lack of rigid rhythm, many of the congregation have found more challenging than previously-introduced settings. We have three flautists in the group, so I have taken the organ/keyboard part and transposed it for the flautists who, combined, play the chords while I play arpegio chords on the guitar. It sounds quite lovely, methinks.

I would very much like to introduce Janco's Revised Mass of the Angels and Saints, which I really like, but I suspect that it's a little adventurous for our setup and congregation; maybe one for the future. My only reservation about it is that the Gloria really requires a division of labour between choir and congregation.

During the penitential seasons we generally use Mass XVIII from the Missal (both English and Greek/Latin versions) which we sing unaccompanied at the Vigil. I REALLY like Missa VIII de Angelis which, however, requires a good organist and confident congregation and is beyond us at present.

The other setting that we use is one of my own.

PhloridaPhil · Post by **PhloridaPhil** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:33 am

I really do hope we have moved on from the notion that we have to use the totality of a mass setting by one composer.

As far as I am aware, the expectation is that we sing the Mass but not necessarily one composer's setting.

We should be free to select from the settings available and the only stricture is to retain the integrity of the Eucharistic acclamations.

That said, we have to admit a 'tradition' of using the plainsong 'amen' regardless of the setting deployed.

alan29 · Post by **alan29** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:24 pm

We are using revised Gathering and Celtic masses, along with Chris McCurries Shrewsbury Mass and the revised Responsorial Mass By Inwood. All these for Eucharistic Acclamations. They go very well.
For Glorias we use the Francis Duffy one, and a couple of my own. Again, they go well. We stick to "refrain" settings, though everyone sings everything.
There are two sets of musicians providing for masses with very different musical expectations. The Vigil Massgoers tend to be "do we have to sing?" and the 11 o'clock "family" Massers rival the local Methodists in their ability to raise the roof. They are a joy to play for.
Coordinating both sets of musicians for Holy Week needs a vast amount of tact and diplomacy.
Very wisely I am not part of that process. :mrgreen:

Hare · Post by **Hare** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:32 am

PhloridaPhil wrote:I really do hope we have moved on from the notion that we have to use the totality of a mass setting by one composer.

As far as I am aware, the expectation is that we sing the Mass but not necessarily one composer's setting.

We should be free to select from the settings available and the only stricture is to retain the integrity of the Eucharistic acclamations.

That said, we have to admit a 'tradition' of using the plainsong 'amen' regardless of the setting deployed.

There is a problem with "mixing and matching" if the congregation have the melody line on cards - as we use for Belmont and Parish (Peter Jones) settings. It is easier if we are using settings that are numbered in the hymnbook as the numbers can be displayed on the board.

Nick Baty · Post by **Nick Baty** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:30 am

I will probably be censored for going off-topic but we haven't used hymn books for many years as they are so limiting. We produce a service sheet each week which contains everything the assembly needs including Gloria, psalm refrain, Eucharistic acclamations, communion song etc. Also, if we tried to used "complete" settings we'd have a smaller repertoire: we currently have six sets of acclamations but only three Glorias and four lambs.

Hare · Post by **Hare** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:48 am

Nick Baty wrote:I will probably be censored for going off-topic but we haven't used hymn books for many years as they are so limiting. We produce a service sheet each week which contains everything the assembly needs including Gloria, psalm refrain, Eucharistic acclamations, communion song etc. Also, if we tried to used "complete" settings we'd have a smaller repertoire: we currently have six sets of acclamations but only three Glorias and four lambs.

Good point. but if we tried that here, I'd have to produce it, and it would be a big job and use a lot of paper with three masses at the weekend.

Society of Saint Gregory