Where are we heading with liturgical formation?

[johnquinn39]

The closure, or surpression of liturgy centres, and the silencing of liturgists (Paul Inwood; Gabe Huck et al) seems to be a growth industry in the Roman Church.

Where are we heading with this?

[musicus]

Somehow, I can't quite imagine Paul Inwood being silenced (but I know what you mean).

SSG seems to be doing a little more on the local front these days, through its diocesan representatives (I've seen the Society News page for the next issue of Music and Liturgy), but there is always more that could be done.

Diocesan provision continues to be patchy - good in parts - and sporadic.

The oft-revisited dream of a national liturgical institute seems likely to remain just that: a dream.

[IncenseTom]

The Blessed John Henry Newman Institute for Liturgical Music seems to be what the doctor ordered IMHO.

All of the guidelines, rubrics, repertoire, etc, is there - it exists. It's juts not implemented correctly/ appropriately/ consistently.

Really, I would like to see more PP's to take some ownership of the standard of music in their parishes and enforce what should happen and be supported by their Bishops - some more rigourous musical and liturgical training at seminary would help. Musicians in the parish should not be left to have free-reign as a way of 'getting the laity involved'. (Of course many parish musicians, you all included, do have appropriate liturgical formation - but many don't. In a lot of places people just do whatever suits them.)

Instead, parish musicians should strive to do the best possible job they can. I have encountered far too many parish choirs/ musicians who decide on repertoire based on how easy it will be for them/ how well they know it/ how much they like it and it just isn't good enough.

Mediocrity shouldn't be an option.

A further (and in some ways, a more frustrating) issue is this:

Consider you have been to a top-knotch liturgical formation event and come away with some stella ideas and new things to try. At the next choir practise you introduce some of these and explain very clearly the reasoning behind them (linked to church guidelines), etc, but the choir is having none of it and starts up with the whole, "why can't we sing things we know?".... ramble.
Maybe on a good day, you get through to them, and they go for the ideas, taking it all on board and giving it a go at Mass, but oh no..... after Mass that sunday one or two more vocal members of the congregation come along and have a moan about the new music and how they didn't like it and they want to sing 'Bring Flowers of the rarest'.

Even with all the liturgical formation for parish musicians in the world, the bad habits of the congregation die hard. Oh, for a magic wand.

[alan29]

Liturgical formation costs money which ever way you shake it. I suspect that will always be the stumbling block in one way or another. What ever happened to Sarum College? Wasn't there meant to be a catholic input?

[Southern Comfort]

Liturgical formation costs money which ever way you shake it. I suspect that will always be the stumbling block in one way or another. What ever happened to Sarum College? Wasn't there meant to be a catholic input?

The Sarum College institute was headed by a Catholic (Fr Christopher Walsh) and so had considerable Catholic input. It collapsed because the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales pulled the plug on the finances....

[musicus]

The Sarum College institute was headed by a Catholic (Fr Christopher Walsh) and so had considerable Catholic input. It collapsed because the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales pulled the plug on the finances....

That's right - I remember now. It was a very promising ecumenical venture, ideally situated in the cathedral precinct at Salisbury. It was snuffed out before it had really got going.

[Southern Comfort]

The Sarum College institute was headed by a Catholic (Fr Christopher Walsh) and so had considerable Catholic input. It collapsed because the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales pulled the plug on the finances....

That's right - I remember now. It was a very promising ecumenical venture, ideally situated in the cathedral precinct at Salisbury. It was snuffed out before it had really got going.

The bishops have a track record of doing that, alas. The same thing happened with John Michael East and the Church Music Association back in the early 1970s, just as the CMA was starting to make a real impact but also just before it could become financially self-sustaining.

[alan29]

Gosh, that memory has aged me.

[Nick Baty]

When it comes to music, we overcomplicate it all. The priorities for music as laid down in Singing the Mass make it so very much easier. When I started in my present parish we started with the basics – Gospel greeting and eucharistic acclamations. I think we sometimes had a well-known gathering song to warm everyone up. And that's all we did. Eventually we added a responsorial psalm. Later we formed a small choir to add harmonies etc. Glorias came much later and we've only added communion psalms in the last 18 months.

Consider you have been to a top-knotch liturgical formation event and come away with some stella ideas and new things to try. At the next choir practice... the choir is having none of it.

Personally, I'd start with the assembly – of which the choir is but a part.

after Mass that sunday one or two more vocal members of the congregation come along and have a moan about the new music and how they didn't like it and they want to sing 'Bring Flowers of the rarest'.

Perhaps you've just plucked an extreme example, but I can't think of a single Sunday in the three-year cycle where a devotional hymn to Mary is a suitable choice.

Even with all the liturgical formation for parish musicians in the world, the bad habits of the congregation die hard.

And the most ingrained habit was "We're not singing, that's the choir's job". So stand the choir down for a few months. Let them be ministered to for a while and they might see their own role differently. Jesus did something similar: We'll hear on Thursday evening that he washed his disciples feet. Worth reading back a chapter – and just a few days – to Jesus allowing Mary to wash his feet with oil. He was ministered to before ministering.

We're overcomplicating everything. Perhaps we should just get back to basics.

[VML]

Excellent food for thought Nick, thanks.

[johnquinn39]

The Blessed John Henry Newman Institute for Liturgical Music seems to be what the doctor ordered IMHO.

I don't think so. Why would any Christians want to link up with mediocre and ignorant 'liturgy' societies, or publish talks by people who have no knowledge of scripture?

JQ

[musicus]

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, John; but can you justify it? Moreover, BJHNILM isn't a society - but SSG is. Glass houses? Careful now.

[johnquinn39]

Sorry for the confusion, Musicus.

What I meant was, why would BJHNILM wish to build links with a certain Church Music Association?

Back on topic -- where are we heading?

Are we going to have to 'learn' not to wash women's feet, learn latin & archaic english, and
abandon contemporary music?

Will we have to 'learn' not to sound the tambourine?

[musicus]

Oh, I wouldn't worry. In the new Franciscan era we may yet re-learn that it is bishops, not civil servants, who determine their dioceses' liturgical practices (whether they be bishops of Rome, Westminster or Birmingham etc).

[old barmaid]

Well, yes. Bishops deciding how to deal with Clerical sexual abuse in their own Dioceses.
That worked well didn't it?